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Posted by: jujusback4you Nov 7 2006, 17:29 PM

Hi, i have lost all kind of hope about a good unit time response in bfme2 , even in the data rotwk where i think it won't change. Stories about 'it's not so bad' are pure ridiculous jokes. All players get serious problems, they can confirm it, those problems don't exist on other games, even at cnc zero hour. The host gets serious advantage... Graph high fx can't explain that, that's a pure joke, many friends have insane powerful computers and even at low level it doesn't change because the point is not there.

By the way, wc3 has a 0 unit time response with a 33.6 modem, as a customer i don't care about netcode/server issues and stuff. Wc3 has a netcode and personal servers, they don't get lag. Why should e.a. rts players "be ok with lag and stfu"?

You said "on cnc3 when you move a unit, this unit will instant move". Can you promise us that ? If you want to promote e.a rts as a sport, at least get a good tech support.

I'm waiting for a reply from e.a and you, web player i'm waiting for a reply about this :
As a customer, are you going to buy it if we get lag like on bfme 2?

Obvious.

link to e.a forum:

http://forums.ea.com/mboards/thread.jspa?threadID=145880

Posted by: SuperSaint Nov 7 2006, 20:14 PM

The lag I get in BFME2 is very minimal. It certainly doesnt affect my enjoyment of playing the game online

So the answer to your question of whether I would buy cnc3 if it has the same degree of lag would have to be yes from me (although of course I'd prefer it if it had no lag at all)

Posted by: jujusback4you Nov 7 2006, 20:42 PM

purebs. play some cw where the win is so important and you will see players making FIGHT before the game, you get this -BEFORE- coz they both know that the hoster is insainly advantaged.

Posted by: AgmLauncher Nov 7 2006, 21:32 PM

Rofl the lag in BFME 2 is NOT minimal by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe it's fine if you're just goofing around playing FFGs, but the HORRIBLE response delay of units at high levels of competitve play is game ending. It means the difference between losing a hero (and thus the game) or not.

The net lag combined with the inherent engine lag meant units like Theoden mounted on a horse would have a mind of their own. Rather than retreat the instant you told them to, they would either charge headlong into pikes, or remain under fire from archers for too long and die. It was a joke.

Posted by: jujusback4you Nov 7 2006, 21:51 PM

As a customer, are you going to buy cnc 3 it if we get lag like on bfme 2?

reply to this plz ^^

Posted by: -Netput Nov 7 2006, 21:54 PM

I really would like to have a answer to this question too tbh
Atm it just feels great to play Supreme Commander, where there is no lag, even in the beta version!

Posted by: jujusback4you Nov 7 2006, 22:08 PM

simply joke inside again m8 ^^

Are you telling to us that a BETA game have a better netcode than all e.a rts game already out ? omfg i really would like the official position from e.a about the upcoming cnc3 :

Will we get a netcode decent as a beta game from THQ ? it's easy mr e.a just say a yes or no but don't lie to us like 'bfme 2 netcode is ok hoster issue is real as area51...'

Posted by: tehbird. Nov 7 2006, 22:45 PM

I am also watching this case. Nice topic juju

Posted by: jujusback4you Nov 8 2006, 07:39 AM

thanks m8, i really like the cnc serie and i don't wanna buy a game with a netcode worser than some beta game. This excuse is ridiculous:

'Yea but it's becoz p2p system use blablabla but gamepsy tututut and stuf so it's like that sorry'

=======> NO. you have made a bad choice during the past on your netcode? ok , if you won't patch actual game aka bfme 2 +data , at least make your upcoming game good as other actual rts (wc3, supreme comander, etc...). These games have like zero unit time response and are playable with a little 33.6 modem...Promoting a game as a sport is only possible if you patch some basical point.

Imagine playing soccer without shoes ? 1 team (the hoster) get shoes and not the other team. Hilarous ? it's what we feel on you bfme 2, will you think poeple will buy cnc 3 if we get the same prob? i will only reply as me : no.

Posted by: tehbird. Nov 8 2006, 08:17 AM

It would defently discourage me.

Posted by: Campaigner Nov 8 2006, 08:59 AM

Then you need to spread the word so people wait and see how it's like. But it won't matter since 99.8% of people will buy it regardless. (That's what I H-A-T-E about the game market. Casual gamers that don't know shit have way too much power in deciding how successful a game becomes!)

No, I won't buy if netcodes bad.

Posted by: jujusback4you Nov 8 2006, 09:36 AM

Your point is clear, good one! What about other people now? make some noise and we will be heard.

Posted by: DMraider Nov 8 2006, 10:53 AM

I will the buy the game anyway but really a good, quick and RELIABLE unit response is very important. Also fast gameplay is important. That has to be 100% ok because who doesn`t hate it when your unit doesn`t respond when u click or responds very late? It can mean a loss of motivation or a loss of the game!!

Posted by: jujusback4you Nov 8 2006, 12:53 PM

Correct me if im wrong but you are a very good old school player from c&c ccg zero hour but can you imagine this (actual cw prob on bfme 2 and the upcoming data) :

=
hi 1vs1 cw ?

yes

I host

Wait, no, the hoster has advantage you have host our last game so i host!

No it's not true i have host lastime
=

Is this a 'pro rts sport' i'm waiting the e.a reply.

Posted by: HaXxorIzed Nov 8 2006, 13:02 PM

If the lag was that bad ...

Well actually it's a moot point for me. As it is I suffer that sort of lag in a lot of games, and I ended up actually adapting to it in some sense. Don't get me wrong, it's disgusting if that happens, but I could probably still manage to scrape though and play. I know that sounds farfetched, but ask the dow boys, tis true

Posted by: jujusback4you Nov 8 2006, 18:35 PM

farfetched ?

Posted by: HERO Nov 8 2006, 19:50 PM

"ATTACK MAN, FUCKING ATTACK, WHAT THE FUCK MOVE"

- Jonathan "AgmLauncher" LeMaitre @ EALA

Posted by: jujusback4you Nov 8 2006, 21:01 PM

what's your point about the upcoming cnc3 and lag?

Posted by: -Netput Nov 8 2006, 21:39 PM

dj. 1. farfetched - highly imaginative but unlikely; "a farfetched excuse"; "an implausible explanation"
implausible
unlikely - has little chance of being the case or coming about; "an unlikely story"; "an unlikely candidate for reelection"; "a butcher is unlikely to preach vegetarianism"

Posted by: tehbird. Nov 8 2006, 21:42 PM

That`s what a progamer mostly say in a laggy game. I know it myself

IT`S JUST HORRIBLE!

Posted by: AgmLauncher Nov 9 2006, 05:20 AM

It wasn't horribly bad in EALA because we were playing over the LAN. But online it's like a bajillion times worse

Posted by: jujusback4you Nov 9 2006, 07:11 AM

ha yes ! i have this prob sometime on bfme 2 :

Go horse!!! THERE!!! NONONONO NOOOT ON PIKES MmmmOOOOVE omg ***** MOVE!!! 'sklashhh on keyboard' -tut- -tut- -tut-

Really frustrant and very bad about a pro rts upcoming game. Who will play it if we get same lag issue as bfme 2 and data ? It's like an official cheat if you host you are advantaged , w T F is that ?

Posted by: HaXxorIzed Nov 9 2006, 07:13 AM

Hm, I can see lag being much worse than balance issues on the fact it destroys your skill, rather than just requiring more to counter. That said, has EA responded to this concern yet?

Posted by: jujusback4you Nov 9 2006, 07:22 AM

Not at this moment. They know the prob on bfme 2 but they said something like :

'Stop it plz, gamespy is not so bad they make some good work'

So, you have 2 possible way

- they lie

- they don't even test their own game.


We are waiting the official position about hoster/stuff lag issue. They said duirng bodcast 'you will click and the unit instant move' now i'm waiting a confirmation about that.

If the cnc3 won't be lag patched, i won't get it and the most sad it will never go video world cup. You can make some 'exiting enterntaiment stuff and more and blablabla' but if you don't use basical pro things aka a good netcode and a good balance you will never touch wc3 and even starcraft the famous dinosaurous...

Posted by: Phantom Nov 9 2006, 09:45 AM

I plan on buying it when it comes out, so I won't know if it lags online until it's too late to matter. That said, if it does lag, I'll lose interest in it and won't buy any expansions.

But with all the effort EA is putting into making CNC 3 a "fast and fluid" game, I doubt they will ignore an obvious problem like this. Enough noise has been raised about this in the BFME 2 community that they have to be aware of it by now.

Posted by: tehbird. Nov 9 2006, 11:49 AM

Yeah, I am also BFME/2 player as you know. ( PoW|RemiX` )

And the thingy with horse, thats exactly it, or for example you order your soldiers to attack building and since I have to micro very fast I just go on another place of the map and I consider that those soldiers are attacking the building. And then I am like "WHAT?! HOW THE **** COME THAT I DIDNT GAVE ANY DMG TO THAT BUILDING?! IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOWN? WHY?! enemy: YOU FOUGHT MY WARGS".

THATS JSUT REDICILOUS!

Posted by: HaXxorIzed Nov 9 2006, 12:01 PM

Well, It's interesting in that Relic copped a lot of flak for their deicsion to keep in with GS, so I think many other gamer communities agree with your frustration on this one.

Posted by: IpKaiFung Nov 9 2006, 13:07 PM

I'm glad relic have dumped gamespy for CoH, although at the moment its got some teething problems its way better than any Gamespy powered multiplayed game I've played. Gamespy needs to be dumped and the overall sage netcode needs an overhaul but Im gonna predict its not gonna happen.

Posted by: STCAB Nov 9 2006, 15:32 PM

If this game has the same creppy netcoding as the previous games on sage, I'll just 'not play' this one either.

AoW has 0 second unit response time... litteraly

Posted by: M4Assault Nov 9 2006, 15:43 PM

Even Generals has that problem. I don't know how many times I have clicked an upgrade/or move a unit to find out later it didn't register. Not that great when u pop scorps out vs gatt/th to find u have no rocket Serious Errors, & w8ing for a team game to only have it not connect are so annoying.
I havn't played BFME because I heard so many problems about it I shyed away from it. U would think they would learn from their mistakes.
Honestly I'm just going to w8 a week or 2 before buying the game to see how well it does. They say it's not all gamespy's fault & say they are mainly to blame but we all know gamespy is shight regardless. I see EA improving their online in the future, but it's highly unlikely it will be ne time soon. Think about it. They can't get the basics down like other companies & there trying to add so much more to it as in all there new multiplayer features.
How the heck are they going to pull it off? I mean I'm just starting to learn all these tech terms such as netcode, but I know these games have issues compared to other multi games I play online. Seriously how can they add all this new stuff, get the basics down, & have it run smoothly by time CnC3 comes out? While using Gamespy on top of that.

Posted by: jujusback4you Nov 9 2006, 16:43 PM

Well, tbh i'm just waiting this reply from e.a :

=As i said on podcast, cnc3 will be 'i click i see the unit moving'.=

As customer,if it won't be like that, it will be the last e.a games for me. Btw, if we don't get a reply here you can start to be affraid. Correct me if im wrong but e.a are supposed to 'read this forum very often', that's what they said.

Stay tuned...

Posted by: IpKaiFung Nov 9 2006, 17:17 PM

The last EA game I purchased was BfME =D
They can go stick their shit quality games up their arses for all I care.

Also Juju I doubt any EA rep will post anything as they are too busy giving blowjobs to the hardcore "real" cnc fans who want instacap engineers, MCVs, to discuss how reflective kane's bald head is and want to argue about the colour of tiberium.

Posted by: HERO Nov 9 2006, 21:02 PM

Posted by: TeeToo Nov 10 2006, 07:10 AM

ROFL ..
well i'll buy the game .. reason is ..am gettin old lol
i mean .. i have 2 kids now..and i just want it to be my last RTS
as cnc was the 1st rts game that i ever played online ..
so i'll buy it to have some fun with my cnc addicted friends..and when am fedup with the game i'll just say ..goodbye..get a life u assholes

Posted by: DMraider Nov 10 2006, 08:58 AM

I think it`s true that they spent 90% of their time on other forums (Mostly official forums)

Posted by: Cypher Nov 10 2006, 16:17 PM

Most people are using DSL now, so I don't see why you should support 56k modem / ISDN players. Besides that, Generals doesn't have that many problems, just a flamer bug where the game automatically lags when you use a flamewall at certain areas. I agree, in general the netcode is poor.

Posted by: Cypher Nov 10 2006, 17:00 PM

Also, what about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamachi? I see many people playing games on it and there's zero lag. Other games have lag problems as well - and Hamachi guarantees a lag free environment.

Posted by: IpKaiFung Nov 11 2006, 00:01 AM

well its an improvement over the GS servers.
However most SAGE games arent very responive over LAN either : (

Posted by: STCAB Nov 11 2006, 11:11 AM

"Number one rule in game design, if the player presses the jump button, the character should jump."
-Shigeru Miyamoto

If they can't even get this thing right....

Posted by: tehbird. Nov 11 2006, 12:05 PM

LoL , someone should PM this message to EA

Posted by: jujusback4you Nov 11 2006, 13:01 PM

it's not the solution. I know it, it use this tool but it's not like a REAL good server. It help about some guy unable to connect themself in bfme2 online but it won't delete the lag.

Real good rts need good server and good netcode just like wc3, supreme comander, etc etc...All fake excuse like 'its becoz we use this and this and blabla' are just a shame to us, their customer.

Posted by: flanker27 Nov 11 2006, 13:58 PM

I really think clients like http://www.gg-game.com and hamachi is the future. ggc and hamachi is a really good client where nearly 90 % of the pro dota players play on with almost zero lag.
If the game developers cant fix the lag, the community will and it will result in no one buying the game and getting other clients who doesnt require cd key.

Posted by: jujusback4you Nov 11 2006, 14:37 PM

Wow! maybe most important post in this topic!

Posted by: Cypher Nov 11 2006, 15:28 PM

Umm.. Hamachi does remove all lags. In case you didn't know, someone is the host and the others connect via Hamachi to him. Maybe test it before you comment on it?

Posted by: Mooff Nov 11 2006, 15:49 PM

correct me if i'm wrong:

Hamachi is one of those virtual private network tools?


If yes it's basecially a step further after p2p and another step away from a client server modell, which would allow (as in paraworld) a better way to prevent cheating instead of trying to catch them after cheated catching them on the server right away.

Posted by: TDA^ Nov 11 2006, 15:53 PM

it neither solves delay nor lag
delay is much better but its still there and it still can be massive.

Posted by: Javdani Nov 11 2006, 16:15 PM

Please... don't... ever... say.. the words... "pro".. and "dota".. in the same.. sentense..

Posted by: jujusback4you Nov 11 2006, 18:59 PM

pro= human which win money every month, keep this in mind

Posted by: Cypher Nov 11 2006, 20:07 PM

It's like a LAN connection, as if you both sat next to each other and played via LAN. I personally have not had any noticeable lags with Starcraft.

Posted by: IpKaiFung Nov 11 2006, 21:25 PM

"A Bad game will remain Bad Forever where as while a game is still in development in can be improved"
Also wise words from my main man Shigeru.
For an improvement they need to make a brand new engine.

Posted by: AgmLauncher Nov 11 2006, 22:55 PM

No they dont

It just needs refinement.

Do you really want them developing a new engine and running the risk of introducing even more bugs or creating something that could possible break the way they're absolutely PERFECT camera control system works in SAGE?

Every other non-EA RTS game absolutely makes me want to puke when I have to control my camera. Even the ones that attempt to mimic the right click rapid scrolling of SAGE fail miserably. Petroglyph tried with Alamo and it sucked. Other companies think it's a good idea to use the middle mouse button to pan the camera. Can't help but laugh at them.

Posted by: flanker27 Nov 12 2006, 00:32 AM

Is that why complexity has a payed dota team?

Posted by: IpKaiFung Nov 12 2006, 02:54 AM

Yet those non-EA RTS games get into the WCG, CAL, CPL etc. and I dont get how EA can make all their RTS games get progressively worse over the past 3 years : ( Somethings going wrong so you might as well re-build from scratch.

Posted by: DMraider Nov 12 2006, 03:05 AM

The games that get in to the WCG have graphics like RA2 so lag isn`t a big problem for them. (WC3, Starcraft, warhammer)

But compare ZH and soon C&C3 with other tank games. C&C does it good. WC3/starcraft are just exceptions.

Posted by: IpKaiFung Nov 12 2006, 03:19 AM

The actual graphical demands have got nothing to do with how responsive a game is. At the moment CoH is one of the most micro intensive games thats currently being played yet it looks amazing and there is hardly any unresponsiveness from units. People think its computers effecting lag when really their connection is a piece of shit.

Posted by: Cypher Nov 12 2006, 11:42 AM

Blizzard constantly creates games which are behind their time, WC3's comic graphics are not that beautiful (I'd even say it's annoying), WoW doesn't look that good either.



The netcode was crap, we know it and hopefully EA as well, so that they work on it. If a game lags so bad that you can't play it competitively, Hamachi might be a good option. Assuming that everybody uses it, or else you can forget about that.

Posted by: AgmLauncher Nov 12 2006, 12:45 PM

Please stick to the argument. We are talking about the quality of the engine, not the game that is built on it. Not a single other RTS game can match EA's camera controls, which add enormous amounts of control to the player. If WC3 or Starcraft had EA's camera control system, they would be that much better. You could control your camera without sacrificing your hotkey usage or moving your cursor off the action zone of the screen. Korean micro/macro pros would be able to play with even MORE efficiency than they do now.

I simply do not buy/play RTS games that have shitty camera controls because of how clumsy and akward it makes the gameplay feel. It's like driving a car without power steering

So, quite frankly, until other game development companies remove their heads from their asses and start figuring out that the physical action of playing needs to match the quality of gameplay, EA's games will be physically more fun to play despite lower gameplay quality.

Posted by: .Foursaken. Nov 12 2006, 20:31 PM

could you please explain what's so special about EA's "camera control" exactly? I don't understand what you mean.

Posted by: IpKaiFung Nov 13 2006, 01:42 AM

the only thing most developers dont have in their games is the right hold scroll feature, but its a feature I can live without and so can many other players it seems. After each EA RTS has got progressively worse online wise, something really has to be done and im sure it wouldnt be difficult task to implement a similar camera control system into a new engine however knowing EA they would fuck that up too

Posted by: AgmLauncher Nov 13 2006, 07:45 AM

In most RTS games you have two primary means of panning the camera around at a giving zoom level:

1.) Use the arrow keys on your keyboard.
2.) Move the mouse cursor to the edge of the screen.

The trouble with method 1 is that it prevents you from using hotkeys. You're using one hand to give your units orders, and you're using your other hand to move your camera. You actually spend more time (or more actions) giving orders than you do moving the camera, so it would make sense to be able to use both hands to assist in giving orders. For example, you could use your right hand to control your mouse and your units, and your left hand to use hotkeys to keep building units or selecting groups. Then you can micromanage AND macromanage at the same time. But with one hand occupied moving the camera, it's not really possible. You could move your hand back and forth, but that's not really the same.

The trouble with method two is that it removes the cursor from the center of combat. As insignificant as it sounds, when you're in an intense battle where split second decisions matter, you do NOT have time to move the cursor to the edge of the screen and back to your units to give new orders. You always want to have your cursor centered over your units so you can quickly select them and target the enemy. Moreover, the scroll rate moving to the edge of the screen is linear. Whether you want to move an inch, or scroll across the whole map, the scroll rate is the same. So if you want to move just a short distance but your scroll rate has been set such that it allows you to quickly scroll all over the map, then you're actually going to have a hard time moving the screen just a little bit in either direction. It will jump too far, you'll lose your bearing, you'll misclick, and you'll lose.

Command and Conquer games have a feature called "right click rapid scroll". It behaves EXACTLY like your middle mouse button does in any windows application (internet explorer or firefox for example). When you click and hold your middle mouse button, it creates an icon at the point where your cursor was. The farther away your mouse button is from that cursor point, the faster the screen will scroll up and down. This allows you to scroll a short distance at a managable speed, and it also allows you to zip up or down several pages very quickly.

EA's RTS games differ from this in that they don't use the middle mouse button to pan the camera. Instead, they use the right mouse button. The key difference in this is that it keeps your fingers on the action buttons of the mouse, so you can actually execute orders, pan the camera, and use hotkeys all at the same instant. No action in CCG/ZH requires right click and hold. The only time you use the right mouse button in CCG/ZH is to cancel an order. So right click + hold is dedicated completely to the rapid scroll camera feature. Even BFME and BFME 2 which use the warcraft left/right mouse button convention still make use of right click rapid scroll and it works perfectly.

Some games (like supcom, dawn of war, and empire at war) use the middle mouse button to create this effect, but the camera behaves differently. They lack the persistent scroll behavior, which is what allows the camera to continue to move based on how far you moved your mouse from the initial click point. In those other games, when you stop moving your mouse, the camera also stops. Sure it scrolls faster and keeps the mouse centered, but in order to move a great distance you have to click + hold + drag, reposition your mouse on your desk, click + hold + drag, reposition the mouse on your desk etc.

It's tough to describe really. You have to play it to see what I mean, but you can get an idea of what it's like by clicking and holding your middle mouse button in your internet browser to scroll up and down. Most mice will have the variable distance/speed function to them, some are linear though.

Posted by: DMraider Nov 13 2006, 11:32 AM

I don`t use right scroll but I can imagine it being very usefull yes. I don`t use alot of hotkeys. I use Groups, H, certain hotkeys for buildings but I should use more. It takes maybe some time to get used to but after those few days u can concentrate more on more important stuff while using hotkeys for other stuff.

Posted by: jujusback4you Nov 13 2006, 13:23 PM

Imo, big lag issue was introduced by bfme 2. Since when zh player take care about host? never heard about that. that's why im worryed now coz if cnc3 will keep the same way as bfme we will enjoy so many lag issues ...

Posted by: TDA^ Nov 13 2006, 13:27 PM

bfme 1 also had the delay issue but it wasnt THAT worse

Posted by: - BLITZ - Nov 13 2006, 16:45 PM

I'm so used to right click scroll, I think I'd find scrolling difficult without it.

Posted by: tehbird. Nov 13 2006, 20:09 PM

HOTKEYS FTW!

Posted by: .Foursaken. Nov 13 2006, 20:15 PM

ah thx AGM

yeah i've played ZH and i know what you're talking about now,
i agree that's a good system however the response time problems in BFME2 are just rediculous o.o

Posted by: AgmLauncher Nov 13 2006, 22:01 PM

Yeah, agreed. BFME 2 repsonse time is LAUGHABLE. There's significantly more engine lag in BFME 2 than in ZH, and that combined with the net code is just

Posted by: HERO Nov 14 2006, 03:50 AM

I HEARD there will be faster response time for CNC3

Posted by: K-widowmaker Nov 14 2006, 03:53 AM

That would be nice. it all really depends on the two computers playing it though (or more)

Posted by: DMraider Nov 14 2006, 08:59 AM

Framerate and response time is so important.

Basically u got Framerate and graphics. Both is important. Good graphics is hard work but a bit useless if the framerate sucks. Framerate and response times comes first, Then cool tanks and cool explosions, then cool buildings, then the rest.

Posted by: AgmLauncher Nov 15 2006, 03:03 AM

Agreed. Don't sacrific gameplay for graphics.

Shame on anyone who thinks graphics are more important than gameplay. Go watch The Matrix or StarWars over and over if you care more about visuals than solid interactivity

Posted by: DMraider Nov 15 2006, 10:43 AM

The first Matrix was good though. I watched it like 4 or 5 times in 2 years time (after I borrowed it too a friend and he lost it lol)

but the 2nd and 3rd Matrix are just average and imo there`s too much bs. The mysterious aspect of #1 was cool I thought. It was better if they left it there so u can fantasize how it would move on. It was sort of an end anyway. Smith was owned, and he had the girl

Ok Back to topic.

So yes Framerate and gameplay is important and Framerate is an aspect of Gameplay but graphics have a role too I think. Gameplay comes first but I think everyone wants the Mammoth Tank to look cool. And to make it look cool doesn`t neccesary require alot of comp power. It doesn`t mean it needs to built up out of 10000 pixels w/e. Just that it looks cool and that its fun to watch buildings explode and that battles are impressive. U got gameplay and then u have sound & graphics to support it.

Frank klepacki made some games alot cooler. The music he has done for Dune2000 and Battle for Dune is even better than that of C&C games.

Posted by: Javdani Nov 15 2006, 15:50 PM

In the essence I guess gameplay music doesn't mean anything when you're playing a game in multiplayer mode since (pretty much everyone I know at least) turns off the music to get a better feel for the ingame sounds. ^^

Posted by: STCAB Nov 15 2006, 18:51 PM

Nothing prevents the middle mouse button from giving the same scroll effect as if it was mapped to the right mousebutton.
It's just the devs that added the hold-and-drag type of scrolling instead of the speedscroll style.

EDIT: Well, I guess you got camera rotation mapped to the middle one. Not that you actually use that alot... but valid arguement I guess.

Posted by: DMraider Nov 15 2006, 18:58 PM

Which games do u play? if a game has cool music that suits the game then thers no reason to play other music. However yea maybe u can turn it off if u want to hear the ingame sounds better, but then you`re just a wannabe pro I think

Posted by: FnaTiC^^ Nov 15 2006, 19:43 PM

I personaly just hope CnC3 wont be maphacked.. like Gens and Zh have bein it ruined alot off the game.. EA shud focus more on there patches.. And put a stop on hackers ruining the game...

Saying no names

Posted by: Javdani Nov 16 2006, 14:11 PM

I used to be a pro wc3 player.

I took time to train with Denmarks (that's where I'm from) best UT2k4 player in order to learn how to play that game. And where we for example started with me getting raped 80-0 in 15 minutes, I can now actually put up quite a fight and he rarely ever wins with more than 10 points over me.
(in case you didn't know, that's not that much)

After that I came to GR.com to learn to play ZH properly, still haven't mastered the game but I've improved a lot since then. ^^

If you want to win, you need to try your best and I love to improve. For example back in wc3, I took 3 weeks where I fucked up my game completely by making custom keys. I lost so many really important games because I had been playing with the normal hotkeys for more than a year. In the end it improved my game when I finally learned how to use it properly.

When I started playing UT2k4 I couldn't even dodge jump, or scale up walls, hit with most wpns, or anything like that. I didn't know how to control a map either or how to use the Shield Gun. I've learned that ^^

Every little thing you can do to help yourself improve your game is something you should do (I'm not talking about hax etc here Oo) if you want to become better. If I need music, I usually put on some of my metal or other fast paced music. Even though ingame music can very often be good or fit the theme of a faction you're playing or be action packed for fps games. Nothing (for me) beats the music I love. ^^

Striving for perfection is my biggest flaw I guess.

Trivial random stuff:
- In Diablo2 LoD I made the worlds first Legit lvl 99 Fire Sorc (online)
- In WoW I've been in a high end raiding guild who got world 10th (europe 6th) or so on KT. (left it now though, moved on from that game)
- I mastered Starcraft a long time ago (too long for me to truelly remember the game these days though )

Posted by: DMraider Nov 16 2006, 14:43 PM

Why is that a flaw? Yea if u exxagerate it then it is I guess.

Also yea I think there are so many small things to learn in WC3 (and other RTSs too) that u can`t find fast yourself and u just need the help of a pro.

The main thing I am thinking about is Force Fire in CCG. Many didn`t know it doubled the damage of units and I always used it with my Nuke cannon so I had a considerable advantage against people who didn`t knew it. Knowledge is Power right?

Posted by: Javdani Nov 16 2006, 16:27 PM

wc3 does have a shit load of small things, indeed. ^^

Even though it doesn't have 12 factions each with their own set of 30+ units etc. It pretty much just has the units needed in the game.

Back when I was at my prime, you could mention any unit in the game and I could tell you the cost, attack speed, movement speed, attack damage, hit points, spells/abilities and the cooldown/mana cost on them. Any building and I could tell you the cost, build time, abilities etc. ^^
+I was a lord of theorycrafting. ^^ so I could make the oddest things work

I also knew the exact hit points of all heroes up to lvl 3, and most of them up to lvl 5. ^^
(the reason I didn't know all heroes up to 5 was that some heroes are never used, or just never brought up above 3. And most heroes in general are never brought up above 5, games are often over by then ^^)

Posted by: DMraider Nov 16 2006, 18:01 PM

yes but also knowledge of things that no1 else knows. Force fire was something like that. 80% of my opponents didn`t knew that and couldn`t have known that unless they used CTRL next to units.

Posted by: DMraider Nov 16 2006, 18:17 PM

Yes but also knowledge of things that no1 else knows. Force fire was something like that. 80% of my opponents didn`t knew that and couldn`t have known that unless they used CTRL next to units.

Even Dune2 had stuff like that. When I played Dune2 I was like 6 and I found out that units that are on screen move faster than units offscreen (weird huh, but it was 1992, first RTS!)

Also the damage that units did to eachother depended on how they were positioned.

See this.



Here u can see how much damage a unit does at what position compared to the enemy unit its facing.

From bottom to top damage is twice as good as from left to right. Its funny. U can have a great advantage against an enemy comp if u use it



Unit 1 attack first. The enemy attacks unit 1 and u attack him. Both do some damage. 1 Sec later u come with Unit 2 and u do twice as much damage. Basically u got 3 times his firepower. . And on top of that when his unit is beyond 50% damage he only has half the firepower so u will totally own that unit hehe.

(some, not heavy or unfair) Bugs and tricks are good.

Posted by: EA Predator Nov 17 2006, 16:11 PM

First off DMRaider, your drawing skills are terrible, no offense buddy, but come on ) Credit for stick figure drawings, I actually say I can't do much better myself )

So, let me make a couple points in brief for C&C 3 netcode. Not netput...netcode.

With our drive for "RTS as a Sport" and the match broadcast feature we are innovating, having good network code is of paramount importance. We don't want people all over the world watching matches with lag, thats no fun.

That said, we just finished rewriting the network layer of our code, and while we don't promise zero lag (no game has no zero lag), the host should no longer have an advantage and we feel very confident in that the game is much more responsive.

With C&C 3, its our goal to make click and move instantaneous, no lag, no wait, you click, they move, and they go kick some butt.

That's as much in-depth detail as I can provide, but in a nutshell, we are rewriting our network code for those who like to hear the word code more than layer )

-Predator

Posted by: Mooff Nov 17 2006, 17:47 PM

great News.

Posted by: DMraider Nov 17 2006, 18:33 PM

I can`t draw well both on the comp and on a piece of paper. But I`m not here to draw nice I made a point lol

I can do better next time when I use paint better

Posted by: flanker27 Nov 19 2006, 11:44 AM

Great news!

Posted by: tehbird. Nov 19 2006, 12:47 PM

I hope your words will become reality Predator

Posted by: Javdani Nov 19 2006, 13:39 PM

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/9286/gjoo7.jpg

Is Apoc still our C&C Community Manager?

If he is, I'll be _so_ filled with joy.

/end sarcasm

meh..

Posted by: tehbird. Nov 19 2006, 14:38 PM

patch 1.03 for ZH was released like 2 years ago...

Posted by: Mortal9 Nov 19 2006, 18:13 PM

Great news Predator, may it be.

As you said yourself, equal chances and hence zero lag is needed for a competitive gaming environnement.

Posted by: Andy p Nov 19 2006, 19:46 PM

Heh as everyone from the recent bfme 2 bt will tell you i am a big moaner about the bfme 2 lag, after 1.05 i cant even play the game unless i host .

It is ridiculas and as agm points out at competative play its such a stress maker in some ways though cw is pretty poor. Basicly 100%^ with above me.
Anyhow in answer to ya question juju nope i wouldent buyt if it had the same krappy lag so you guys buy it and tell me what its like lol.

ps: agm? dont mention the matrix and the recent starwars films i start to melt if they are mentioned. nooooooooooooo.......*insert splodgy noise here*.

Posted by: Dysto` Nov 19 2006, 23:02 PM

as long as they ditch Gamespy, I can't see much more difficulties.

But they NEED TO DUMP GAMESPY, cause it is ubershitty, especially after takeover by IGN

Posted by: IpKaiFung Nov 20 2006, 02:05 AM

predator = apoc
I think he fancied a name change

Posted by: DuRiN Nov 20 2006, 11:24 AM

Good news predator.

Posted by: Javdani Nov 20 2006, 13:59 PM

If that is true, everything has just become _SO_ much more funny than I could ever have imagined. ^^

That would mean that Apoc (like EA) chose to move on to the next nick (Game, in EA's case) instead of increasing the reputation of the old one (patching old games to improve them) ^^

_rofl_

Posted by: NiKe Nov 20 2006, 17:44 PM

good to hear predator

Posted by: -Netput Nov 20 2006, 17:58 PM

Your right, there is no need to change Netput in C&C3. However maybe you should consider adding Isengard as 4th secret faction

Awesome to hear Predator! Im pretty sure this will convince tons of doubting BFME2 players

Btw, hows the search for Aaron going?
You already got any clues wheres hes being kept?

-Netput

Posted by: IpKaiFung Nov 22 2006, 04:07 AM

I think everyone knows predator is aaron after he used a pretty shit voice changer to do his latest podcast.

Posted by: jujusback4you Nov 23 2006, 16:02 PM

pin this as a promess and we will see if mr e.a is cool...or not ^^

Posted by: Highlander Nov 24 2006, 20:08 PM

As much as I'd like to believe it certainly not holding my breath. BfME2 was also touted as a game targeting "pro players" and i found this

in regards to bfme2 before it came out. well it lagged just as much or mb more and the server crashed more so...

i won't be buying this game until i hear from alot of ppl that the server issues are fine among other gameplay related things...really have extremely little faith in ea as an rts producing company atm. would be nice for this to be changed but unfortunately i doubt it especially considering cnc3 is more targeted towards sp from what little i've heard. well when a joke like bfme in which it wasn't said that it was targeted towards sp (and i hope it wasn't as a blind armless monkey could beat the hardest sp in bfme for both games on its first try) then i shudder to thing what a mess this game could be when it was released.

however i nv played the ccg or zh so idk what teh server issues were on there. even if there was still a decent amount of lag at very least host shouldn't get a significant advantage or one at all...

Posted by: jujusback4you Nov 25 2006, 08:22 AM

ok now we have a promess about cnc3, maybe can we get an anti lag patch in bfm2 data ? or maybe bfme 2 player don't deserve it...mmm time to make a new juju's topic in data forum

ps: i'm sure e.a love me ^^

Posted by: Cypher Nov 25 2006, 11:49 AM

They are pretty lag free, unless your opponent has a crappy connection.

Posted by: Andy p Nov 25 2006, 18:44 PM

I respect the fact that the representatives of ea can take the abuse they do without holding a grude, i know i myself frequently bash ea about their rts games. I suppose this is partly because you guys must see this and laugh your asses off at these losers who have bought your game and have therefore shot themselves in the foot.


However i would like to know if the bfme series is going to get anything in the near future to slove current lag issues as i would rather not see it fade into obscurity due to this.
Meh i guess the problem is that ea doesent need to care, the only way people are going to know about issues like this are by asking people beforehand or buying the game.

And considoring everyone who has complained about the lag has bought the game anyhow that means that in essence ea doesent really have to do anything for their previous games as rotwk proved that people will buy their games regardless. Im not trying to antaganise you or put you on the spot because you are only doing your job, but to the ea 'fatcats' at the top or those who govern the different sections of ea, i wish you would actually take notice.

Well ive just wasted my time i know because the ones at the top are business men not nessarily gamers and the policy they are using, 'jam tomorrow' as i like to call it, not gonna explain that , works perfectly fine and will always work fine unless the characteristics of the human race dramatically change.

Posted by: jujusback4you Nov 26 2006, 11:35 AM

ccg and zh was not really good but at least their netcode was more than ok and it was a good point.

Posted by: Pilbots Nov 29 2006, 20:55 PM

Just saw this. If this is true.........

for CnC3

Posted by: jujusback4you Nov 29 2006, 21:02 PM

what about bfm2 ??? i guess i will stay like that....sad.

Posted by: tehbird. Nov 29 2006, 22:44 PM

They have no reason to rewrite the netcode for BFME2, beacuse people barely play it.

Posted by: JoeyC99 Nov 30 2006, 03:42 AM

thank you juju i really wanted to know if we would be getting lag... i have heard that EA said there would be no lag in C&C3 but i really dont know for sure... there are times where the lag in bfme2 gets so bad it makes me not wanna play anymore and i really dont want to have to deal with it again... very few games i play are lag free in bfme2, i dont wanna go into a game wondering how bad this one is going to lag i wanna go into it knowing its not gonna lag at all... so my answer would be that it probably wouldnt stop me from buying it but it would sure as hell piss me off and possibly be the last EA game i get...

Posted by: jujusback4you Nov 30 2006, 19:03 PM

Joking? if the netcode is in cnc3 and actually he is finished (i guess?) so its like a copy and paste tips. A patch is really easy to make but coz they won't get 1$ you won't get it. Rotwk get the same crappy netcode (worser than wc3 and other old dinosaurus what a joke), that's exactly why i won't pay 30€ in a new badcode lag unbalanced game. Bfme 2 is near to be balanced but the netcode is a pure joke allowing the hoster advantage issue, could you believe that in 2006 ?

Cnc3 will be better so i will buy it, easy imo.

To JoeyC99: no prob m8 ^^