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MIDWARS MAP AND MIDWARS TMM ON ITS WAY

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# 41X-Flame Jun 10 2012, 11:19 AM
And yet I'd much rather play against Aluna than against Flint. Since I'm pretty much always pink/blue these days, I get rid of Arti/Dev/Flint.

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# 42Gorb Jun 10 2012, 14:11 PM
Arti/Dev/Flint are, in my experience, the three most reliable bans in Mid Wars (Devo and Flint were instaban material in the old in-house "mid war" games I used to play in), aye!

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# 43Witchking' Jun 12 2012, 07:47 AM
I can assure you that behe is the most devastating one you definitely don't want to have as enemey. As soon he gets pk and has his ult up, the next team fight is basically won. I've never been able to ban heroes (never blue / pink lol), but I've won all games where I got to pick him. Some of them were 15 mins stomps, the rest was clearly won due to farmed carries that could do all their damage while I kept 5 man disabled with ult + 2 x stun. Just so devastating.

Btw, gauntlet is also a nice pickup if there's devo banned. Be it to hook dem fukers in, be it to save your allies from a bad position. If there weren't devo / behe / flint / artillery to ban already, this guy would be definitely ban material.

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# 44X-Flame Jun 12 2012, 09:34 AM
Thing is, between the times you can use Behe's ult, there will be plenty more teamfights, and a mid/lategame behemoth without his ult is underwhelming. Behe's ult is such a large part of his usability, that a hero that has to wait 90 seconds (or w/e his ult cd is at lvl16) to be able to use his full potential becomes a liability. I have ~100 games under my belt, and I have yet to see him making a big difference when his ult wasn't up, barring the occasional Fissure block.

He's strong, but not ban worthy strong. I much rather deal with a Behe than with that god-awful Arti (LRM is stupidly strong in Mid Wars), Dev (not for me, but teammates that can't dodge hooks = gg), and Flint (long range means he's impossible to kill and will get him items through massive assists).

Another hero worth mentioning is Thunderbringer. That passive just tears through enemies, provided you can stay alive. I like to build him tanky, complete with a Frostwolf Skull and Shamans, in addition to getting some mana regen going so you can spam CL to proc your passive. He gets a ton of assists through his passive, so money is hardly an issue.

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# 45Witchking' Jun 16 2012, 21:05 PM
Every 90 seconds a won team fight (read: genocide) is enough to win a game ... well at least for me. The times I played behe I always managed to have some good farm including spell shards and frostfield or other stuff to deal damage and disable the enemy team as long as possible.

LRM is dangerous and annoying but in another way. You can dodge LRM, you can move and attack and cast spells and you can disable him while channeling, but you can't do anything against a well placed behe ult. If the behe player knows what he does you are dead before you are released from his deadly stun lock combo.

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# 46X-Flame Jun 17 2012, 10:57 AM
QUOTE(Witchking' @ Jun 16 2012, 23:05 PM) *

LRM is dangerous and annoying but in another way. You can dodge LRM, you can move and attack and cast spells and you can disable him while channeling, but you can't do anything against a well placed behe ult. If the behe player knows what he does you are dead before you are released from his deadly stun lock combo.

You can't dodge/stop LRM when half your team is being disabled with AoE stuns. Even pubsters know that picking Hammer/Pyro/Witch/FA with Arti and going in early will destroy anything.

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# 47Rizky Jun 17 2012, 11:54 AM
QUOTE(X-Flame @ Jun 17 2012, 13:57 PM) *

You can't dodge/stop LRM when half your team is being disabled with AoE stuns. Even pubsters know that picking Hammer/Pyro/Witch/FA with Arti and going in early will destroy anything.

Barbed armor> LRM

Nuff said.

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# 48X-Flame Jun 17 2012, 12:16 PM
Yeah, I always get Barbed Armor with my first 603g too! It's the start I'm talking about here. Later on it's still strong, but there are ways around it by then. I'll gladly trade in a Behemoth ban for an Arti ban.

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# 49Ryze Jun 17 2012, 21:53 PM
Gauntlet pretty much counters artillery early on. LRM is annoying at most, if all 5 split up he can realistically only get one person, and even then you can quite easily avoid it

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# 50Witchking' Jun 18 2012, 08:18 AM
Well as LRM is a scaling skill it's especially at the start when it's weak ... I don't get your problem, like said it's just annoying. He can't spam it anyway as long as there's no ring of sorcery on his team. Anyway I never have regen problems in mid wars, mana battery / power supply and a healer or a simple life tube solve all your problems (starting regen paid with the starting gold apart of course).

Believe me, a LRM every 30 seconds that takes 1/5 of your life hurts less than a behe ult on 3-5 people every 90 seconds ...

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# 51Vacant Jun 23 2012, 20:26 PM
artillery's garbage
LRM is annoying, and that's it.

i'm surprised more people don't ban arma he's a fucking wrecking machine
immortals all day long

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# 52Gorb Jun 23 2012, 22:16 PM
Power Supply, chain stun, dead Arma.

I mean, sure, a fed Arma can push really damn effectively, but that's like complaining about a fed Aluna or Vindicator (Vindi in particular excels at four-hitting most heroes with Harkons) being able to kill you really, really quickly.

The thing about Artillery is that LRM is mana-cheap, you only need mana for it (Bunker Down is kinda laughably cheap) and it can stack a hilarious amount of damage, especially if you're quick with your finger (for left/right traversal).

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# 53Vacant Jun 23 2012, 23:34 PM
QUOTE(Gorb @ Jun 23 2012, 22:16 PM) *

Power Supply, chain stun, dead Arma.

You're saying arma is bad but you don't even know the proper counter for him? lol
It's silence, btw.

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# 54Gorb Jun 24 2012, 11:35 AM
I didn't say Arma was bad. I simply said what counters him effectively in a Mid Wars game without resorting to a specific counterpick.

Hellflowers are also ten a penny in Mid Wars.

Allow me to rephase, in case I'm confusing you:

"You're saying Artillery is bad but you don't even know how to play him? lol
It's LRM for harass and Bunker Down for last hits, btw."

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# 55houseofdeath Jun 24 2012, 16:24 PM
QUOTE
I mean, sure, a fed Arma can push really damn effectively, but that's like complaining about a fed Aluna or Vindicator (Vindi in particular excels at four-hitting most heroes with Harkons) being able to kill you really, really quickly.


The difference being that a fed vindi or aluna still die relatively quickly. You need several other fed carries working on arma to bring him down.

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# 56Gorb Jun 24 2012, 20:04 PM
Depends on the hero(s) and items used. You'd be surprised how fast a Harkons melts Armadon, even with Shamans.

Harkons Vindi is hitting for how much damage per hit? Something ridiculous anyhow.

I know Arma is a bitch to deal with. I know he snowballs incredibly well. However, I was originally talking about Artillery, who absolutely rapes face in Mid Wars.

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# 57Vacant Jun 24 2012, 20:08 PM
QUOTE(Gorb @ Jun 24 2012, 20:04 PM) *

However, I was originally talking about Artillery, who absolutely rapes face in Mid Wars.

Except he doesn't. I've yet to see a game where artillery is anything but an annoyance early game and an easy kill later on.

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# 58Golle Jun 24 2012, 20:40 PM
please keep fighting about a no stats fun map *popcorn*

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# 59Gorb Jun 25 2012, 10:18 AM
QUOTE(Vacant @ Jun 24 2012, 21:08 PM) *

Except he doesn't. I've yet to see a game where artillery is anything but an annoyance early game and an easy kill later on.

I've yet to see a game where he isn't instabanned or a significant contribution. Subjective experiences are lovely, eh? smile.gif

@Golle: <3

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# 60Vacant Jul 5 2012, 06:32 AM
Too subjective? How about how at higher mmr midwars play, like 1700 and up, no one ever gets artillery. Just because bads hopped on the artillery op bandwagon doesn't mean he's actually op. There's at least a dozen carries off the top of my head that are way better at midwars than artillery.

nomad fa pred flint aluna puppet maliken moa arma panda valk silhouette draconis
probably forgetting a few but yeah artillery is hugely overrated

edit: removed insults, i guess it doesn't really make you stupid to think arts good as it's a pretty common misconception

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