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UvC on Twilight Flame - No Rush/SW

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# 1ozzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzy Jun 6 2007, 00:10 AM
Goodday to you all,

I just recently joined this community and I would like to thank you for every strat already provided, it did improve my game a bit. Im a real big n00b with no micro-skills what so ever. I play a lot of 2vs2 and 3vs3 on TF. Since I can't master any army besides USA...(only a bit) I would like to hear some pointers on the following situations.

I hope you dont mind me asking for these pointers, because the most strats provided on here against China are not working for me, perhaps lack of micro skills, perhaps lack of all skills...you tell me. This is always my build order on TF, im always top corner (as a friend of mine is better then me and therefor he can take the quicker corner (left corner)

My build order is as follows:

First dozer to middle (middle)
Press H and click and press D
With the 2nd dozer coming out, I build power (base)
The first dozer I build Barracks and pop out 1 missle defender, 1 ranger, 1 missle defender and 1 ranger (middle)

---The missle defenders and rangers I send/t to his oil derricks in the hope I can stop his dozer and perhaps take out even more

With the 2nd dozer I build Supply and once supply is done I build another chinook (base)
With the first dozer I build a war factory and pop out as much Paladins I can afford (middle)
The first dozer I drive towards the top corner and once I have the money for it I build a supply dock there (between the two supply piles) (base)

Now the rest is just imagination for me....I just do something in the hope my friend(s) are coming to my aid asap.

So here is my major issues:

*When against China....how do you stop a flame tank with my build order(Flame tanks are a real burdon for me)?
*What is the best thing to do against Overlords (I get run over by Overlords pretty quick)?
*What to do against Tankhunters+Gattling tanks (rangers get shot down by gattling tanks and paladins by the tankhunters)
*What is the best (prefer mobile) air defense for USA? Because if use humvee's with TOW missle upgrade they get torn to pieces by Migs. And if I stuff them with rocketeers I lose quite a bit of money if they get killed with black napalm upgrade by migs?

I hope you can help me with these issues, because if we lose a game its mostly because my lack of skills.

****
One side note, if I play 3vs3, there is only one person I can really count on, since the other player is even more nubbish then me IMHO.
****

Since im here and dont want to spoil the forums with all kind of questions....

What is it I hear about force fire with paladins.....does it make it stronger? And if so, just force fire on the unit itsself (the unit you are attacking)?

I hope you guys are willing to help me out and I hope I did not misread the rules and placed this topic in the wrong spot. I know my build order is probably pretty wack but since I totally lack micro skills (you should see me sweat when I misplaced units again or when I attack....its always the units I need that are running behind.....and formation is too slow for me....) and therefor it would probably be better to change the build order, but then....please keep in mind that I lack micro-skills.

Many thanks it advance,

Greetings Ozzy

This post has been edited by Trixx: Jun 6 2007, 09:35 AM

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# 2The_Hurricane2239 Jun 6 2007, 07:32 AM
Lol, China is a tuffy to play against.

1. For the flame tanks sending a paladin to your each of your flanks should solve this problem, or maybe laser-locking missile defenders.
2. For Overlords try tomahawks, 6-7 laser locking md's, or maybe Raptors if you use an airfield. Just watch out for gatts
3. When you figure out how to 100% stop a th+gatt rush everytime, plz let me know. The usual way is using Paladins to fight the gatts and rangers or whatever to fight the tank hunters, will require good micro on your part though.
4. regretfully Humvees are the best mobile air defense you have. they're no gatt tank, but if you group them with paladins they are hard to hit.

These are what i've found works ( I don't have as much experience as the other guys here though). Good luck =D

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# 3Trixx Jun 6 2007, 09:08 AM
In my opinion there are two good strats for UvC in a No Rush game.

Safe tactic:
  • first dozer build power
  • second dozer goes to unsafe supply, after power has finished it builds a supply center between the money boxes.
  • in the meantime you build main supply with the first dozer (-> one extra nook each supply)
  • when the supplies are finished (should be done nearly in the same moment) you send the first dozer to the top of the entry and build a warfactory, the second dozer builds 2 barracks in front of the entry, that means outside of your base.
  • The first upgrade to get is the flashbang upgrade, while the upgrade is in progress you can spam rangers and MD`s out of the ther barrack and Paladin`s out of the WF.
  • After the flashbang upgrade is finished you take the oil capture upgrade asap
Afterwards it depends on the tactic of your opponent, most good China players will go a strong gatt/th (gattling + tankhunter) spam followed by some migs. The flashban upgrade together with Pala`s and MD`s will help you to stop the gatt/th. Always remember to put your MD`s behind your Paladin`s and laser lock his gatts. The rangers have to be spread out to kill as much tankhunters as possible. When you have taken your oils try to tech up and build some Tomahawks in between if he goes for nukes. If he goes for migs you will need the rocket upgrade for your vees.

Unsafe tactic:
  • first dozer build power, followed by supply center
  • second dozer builds barrack next to CC, followed by 2 ranger, 1 MD and oil capture upgrade
  • with your first nook you take the 2 rangers, the MD and one dozer and drop the in the middle of the 4 oils. Leave the MD in the nook and send it to opponents entry. Try to kill the dozer which will go out to build some barracks. With your dropped dozer you build a warfactory and with the rangers you capture your oppnents oils.
  • when the WF is finished you start a paladin spam in direction to his entry if your MD drop didnt work. Try to get the first Pala right in front of his barrack to stop the tankhunters. After you captured the oils you build a barrack next to the warfactory. Same as in the other strat you start to spam some rangers + MD`s. Take your own oils with the 2 rangers from start and get the flashbang upgrade with the barrack in your base
Same as in the safe strat it depends on the evaIuation of the game what your next steps have to be. You will learn this by spamming games and getting experience. If you have any further questions don`t be afraid to ask them. I will provide you with some replays or screenshots when I am back at home smile.gif

About the Force Fire question:


Force fire is a bug which is used by many players. It doesnt work if you press control and click on the unit itself. The way how it works is to press control and fire directly next to the unit. Check out our tip of the week about it.

How to kill Ovies:


Overlords are one of the easiest aim for USA as soon as you found out how to kill them. Since they are very slow and unflexible there are different ways to kill them. The most common way to kill them is with laser locking MD`s together with Paladin`s and if you have some Tomahawks its also good to have them in between. If he has some gattlings toegether with the Overlords you have to LL the overlord(s) and kill the gattlings with Paladin`s. You can also do it the other way, but in my opinion it doesnt work`s that well.

A good addition to your ground units are raptors. You need 3 raptors to kill one overlord. Just try out how it works best for you.

This post has been edited by Trixx: Jun 6 2007, 09:47 AM

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# 4BoWZeR Jun 6 2007, 10:50 AM
You can as usa also use raptors to kill ovies

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# 5Trixx Jun 6 2007, 11:23 AM
QUOTE(tact1c @ Jun 6 2007, 12:50 PM) *

You can as usa also use raptors to kill ovies

Maybe read before post?

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# 6ozzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzy Jun 6 2007, 15:04 PM
I would like to thank you all for taking the time and effort to reply to my rather big thread with issues. I read everything that has been replied, now its only a matter of practising it. I read the replays and screenshots are on the way and Im looking forward to them, since some things are still a bit unclear to me.

I hear a lot about micro-ing and stuff.....I assume the only way you can really learn that is by practising in online mode? Since you would have to counter what the enemy is throwing at you.

I played 5 games today where I was practising my micro a bit.....but it went horrible. I large amount of paladins....40+ all got raped by tankhunters while snipers where just walking behind my paladins.....I still need to work on that a bit.

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# 7Trixx Jun 6 2007, 15:28 PM
QUOTE(ozzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzy @ Jun 6 2007, 17:04 PM) *

I would like to thank you all for taking the time and effort to reply to my rather big thread with issues. I read everything that has been replied, now its only a matter of practising it. I read the replays and screenshots are on the way and Im looking forward to them, since some things are still a bit unclear to me.

I hear a lot about micro-ing and stuff.....I assume the only way you can really learn that is by practising in online mode? Since you would have to counter what the enemy is throwing at you.

I played 5 games today where I was practising my micro a bit.....but it went horrible. I large amount of paladins....40+ all got raped by tankhunters while snipers where just walking behind my paladins.....I still need to work on that a bit.

Put the snipers around the Paladins, preferably in fron of them. Just remind that they are visible when they are moving wink.gif

I will make you a replay of each strat tomorrow so you can see the exact movements. To learn micro I will have a look if I have some replays with USA, but I am not sure if have some on this computer. My other will be exchanged and I guess I will also get a new hard disk since the other was probably broken.

We will definitly find a way to improve your gameplay wink.gif

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# 8BoWZeR Jun 6 2007, 16:20 PM
Overlords are one of the easiest aim for USA as soon as you found out how to kill them. Since they are very slow and unflexible there are different ways to kill them. The most common way to kill them is with laser locking MD`s together with Paladin`s and if you have some Tomahawks its also good to have them in between. If he has some gattlings toegether with the Overlords you have to LL the overlord(s) and kill the gattlings with Paladin`s. You can also do it the other way, but in my opinion it doesnt work`s that well.

A good addition to your ground units are raptors. You need 3 raptors to kill one overlord. Just try out how it works best for you.

You edited your post. To include my advice then be a jerk to me? sad.gif


This post has been edited by Trixx: Jun 6 2007, 16:51 PM

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# 9Trixx Jun 6 2007, 16:50 PM
QUOTE(tact1c @ Jun 6 2007, 18:20 PM) *

Overlords are one of the easiest aim for USA as soon as you found out how to kill them. Since they are very slow and unflexible there are different ways to kill them. The most common way to kill them is with laser locking MD`s together with Paladin`s and if you have some Tomahawks its also good to have them in between. If he has some gattlings toegether with the Overlords you have to LL the overlord(s) and kill the gattlings with Paladin`s. You can also do it the other way, but in my opinion it doesnt work`s that well.

A good addition to your ground units are raptors. You need 3 raptors to kill one overlord. Just try out how it works best for you.

You edited your post. To include my advice then be a jerk to me? sad.gif

Look at the time I edited my post, it was quite earlier than your post wacko.gif

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# 10ozzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzy Jun 6 2007, 17:22 PM
QUOTE
Put the snipers around the Paladins, preferably in fron of them. Just remind that they are visible when they are moving


So before going into battle I place them in front or in between of my paladins and then put them in formation? And if I attack, just keep clicking forward until I almost reach the units I want to attack and then I attack (since attacking will break up the formation).

QUOTE
We will definitly find a way to improve your gameplay


That is very kind. Somehow Im not really good in gaming, I have been playing DOD (a FPS game) for 6 years now and still I'm not better then the most average. I don't know if I have like a slow hand-eye coordination....But practise makes better and thats just the thing I will do (referring to C&C:G atm).

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# 11Trixx Jun 6 2007, 17:31 PM
Snipers preferably attack soldiers when they are on guard mode. Its hard to say if you have to put them in front of Pala`s before a fight. Normally the fight is going on all the time. It`s better to learn in fast games (no rules] than in No Rush games. I know you will lose more at the beginning, but as soon as your micro improves you will get what I mean. You can only learn from mistakes. No Rush games make you slow, in thinking and in acting wink.gif

Furthermore I would NOT use formations on a map like TF, its too big to play in small formations. You have to spread out your units. Obviously you can see more of the map and you can adept better to the different situations. Snipers should be in front, not only to attack, also to scout.

This post has been edited by Trixx: Jun 6 2007, 17:32 PM

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# 12The_Hurricane2239 Jun 6 2007, 18:19 PM
And if you dont think its too dangerous you can always just attack move withe the snipers as they attack just the infantry.

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# 13ozzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzy Jun 6 2007, 18:39 PM
QUOTE
Try to get the first Pala right in front of his barrack to stop the tankhunters.


I don't get this one. You mean just as close to the barracks entrence as possible to the tankhunters can't come out anymore? Or does the laser kill them instantly or do you just mean to use that paladin to destroy his barracks?

I just played a game with some rather good sniper movement if I say so myself. But still....need all the practise I can use.

I guess it's rush games for me.....already prepared to get pwned biggrin.gif

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# 14meany Jun 10 2007, 16:00 PM
QUOTE(tact1c @ Jun 6 2007, 10:50 AM) *

You can as usa also use raptors to kill ovies

Bad idea If i would lose pala`s would be only against nuke waste of cash.
Listen to me and not all those naabs biggrin.gif

Do The Following Things:

both dozers build supply(btw important to build 3 supplies atleast not just one and sending 3 nooks use 2 supplies and every supply use 2 nooks)

Send your dozer straight to oils and build war factory fast send palas straight to your opponent oil and move it near enterance.
In addition build atleast 2 warfactory`s and 2-3 barracks from now on he will keep spamming gatt th just spam a lot of mds and get some upgrade rangers important to put them behind pala`s.
after you stop him you build stragety center and get asap burton go straight to his oil and kill oil do not risk by capturing it or keep it make sure your burton will not be destroyed.
Now After you managed to kill oils he will start nuke spam If you see you are not able to defeat his nuke+ovie combat retreat to your own base and abandon oils and make sure you kill them asap now get few tomahawks to get his nuke drop few pala`s if there is no need for you to keep them.

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# 15ScOtSmAn Jun 11 2007, 00:30 AM
laugh.gif raptors with laser upgrade on tf are one of the best ways 2 stop ovies+nuke, if not the best. and your raptors if properly microed will gain experience fast and will then become v usefull for destroying buildings/dozer hunting killing anything really i think im right in saying that 1 raptor with laser can kill 1 gat/bm/nuke,and plus raptors are just cool y wouldnt u want them tongue.gif

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# 16Trixx Jun 11 2007, 06:46 AM
I wonder where meany gets the money from for a 2WF 3barrack spam... stop confusing people with your senseless posts.

Instead of sending dozer straight to oil it would be easier to drop by the way. You won`t survive any good gatt/th if you drive to oil, thats a promise whistling.gif

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# 17meany Jun 12 2007, 17:24 PM
QUOTE(Trixx @ Jun 11 2007, 06:46 AM) *

I wonder where meany gets the money from for a 2WF 3barrack spam... stop confusing people with your senseless posts.

Instead of sending dozer straight to oil it would be easier to drop by the way. You won`t survive any good gatt/th if you drive to oil, thats a promise whistling.gif

kid stop your nonsense everytime i post you trying to annoy me it is real start pissing me off get a life man.
you can drop you can do whatever you want just pointing out dozer must build the warfactory outside base and usa player should gain much nooks to hold the china player.
If he won`t do that he will lose

Btw I just wonder why people make such a thread do you really know what is the easiest way to beat china with usa get few gatts from middle spam paladins china dies in 2 mins game over,but as usuall you people always need to win on your own if someone helping to someone the player who got help gets named as week unskilled or whatever.
There is a reason why its called 3v3 so many players talking about teamgame but as usuall no one really working as a team just because their own personal "ego" who is the men enough to say to his team mate bring me some gatts to finish quickly the china on other side ofc the answer is none well maybe few but really few everytime i see from players "guys don`t help me i got him" what is more important for you guys winning as a team or winning as a player in a 1v1 side vs a pro tell me what its the proper answer for each of you guys.

This post has been edited by meany: Jun 12 2007, 17:38 PM

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# 18ScOtSmAn Jun 12 2007, 17:36 PM
QUOTE(meany @ Jun 12 2007, 18:24 PM) *

kid stop your nonsense everytime i post you trying to annoy me it is real start pissing me off get a life man.
you cant drop you can do whatever you want just pointing out dozer must build the warfactory outside base and usa player should gain much nooks to hold the china player.
If he won`t do that he will lose


loL u cant drop? its easy,select the dozer put him in chinook the push the drop off button where u want to trop.and there are multiple areas on tf where sucsefull drops can be made,ie.oils,china base,if your are fast enough this is good way to capture enemy oils aswell.

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# 19meany Jun 12 2007, 17:38 PM
QUOTE(ScOtSmAn @ Jun 12 2007, 17:36 PM) *

loL u cant drop? its easy,select the dozer put him in chinook the push the drop off button where u want to trop.and there are multiple areas on tf where sucsefull drops can be made,ie.oils,china base,if your are fast enough this is good way to capture enemy oils aswell.

well i meant you can lol edited it.

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# 20BiohazarD Jun 12 2007, 18:50 PM
Meany building 2 base supplys and then driving dozer to oils before you build your WF is sensless.

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