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Kanes Wrath

Black hand vs Gdi

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# 1ikkuh Jan 30 2010, 20:23 PM
What do you do in this particular matchup,

enlighten me please, what kind of tactics do you use, how heavy do you go on antiscouting, if you go bikes how many/what is the maximum amount of bikes you want roaming around

etc.
etc.


P.S. No GDI is OP crap, pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee keep this constructive and debatable, whether and what you do specifically in this matchup which you wouldnt do against any other faction

This post has been edited by ikkuh: Jan 30 2010, 21:05 PM

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# 2asdf999 Jan 30 2010, 21:56 PM
all in rocket rush...

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# 3Valleyman465 Jan 31 2010, 08:47 AM
I`m usually not too straight, when playing vs GDI, cos GDI owns bh in 1on1 battles like 2wf scorp spam vs 2wf predspam. I use 2wf bikespam a lot and I stop spamming, when he counters, that bikes are not usable anymore.I found as a very good strat. infantry spam anytime. be sure to get disciples and blue flame. If the map is very open its worth a try, to sneak flame tank or recogner into his base, while distracted.

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# 4asdf999 Jan 31 2010, 22:06 PM
allinmanspam pwns gdi

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# 512937516 Feb 1 2010, 03:32 AM
bike + flametank rush has brought me good experiences when facing GDI.
harass with the bikes and then send ur flametanks to make his con yard and refs go bye bye.

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# 6cnc315d34d Feb 1 2010, 04:30 AM
QUOTE
bike + flametank rush has brought me good experiences when facing GDI.
harass with the bikes and then send ur flametanks to make his con yard and refs go bye bye.

gets owned easy by any decent gdi

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# 7ikkuh Feb 1 2010, 07:16 AM
all the ideas mentioned here are countered by a decent gdi player except the all in manspam. And all in isnt always the way to go in tourneys

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# 8Eph2.8-9 Feb 1 2010, 21:47 PM
QUOTE(ikkuh @ Feb 1 2010, 01:16 AM) *

all the ideas mentioned here are countered by a decent gdi player except the all in manspam. And all in isnt always the way to go in tourneys


If you play vanilla, you'll still need infantry. You will need infantry all-game long, backed up by tanks. Your primary anti-tank unit will be the Rocket Militia. Your primary anti-infantry unit will be the CPB ConCab if the game really drags on. Your primary AA will be . . . you'll need Tib Core bikes and Mantises and even those can get kited by well-micro'd Hammerheads. I personally say Tib Core bikes are more useful than Mantises against Firehawks and to deal with Hammerheads, you will need to base-crawl. Either Technique-style with your original MCV or like Unleashed and use a second one.

Here's your power units as BH if you're playing vanilla:
1) Rocket Militia (counters Preds, Pitbulls, even AP APCs if you have enough of them and aura)
2) ConCab (health bonus, kills infantry really easily)
3) Dozer Scorpion (keep your opponent honest so he doesn't go straight APC spam)
4) Specters (you WILL need these to kill Shatterers and Juggernauts)
5) TibCore Bike (duh, harassment + AA. Keep some near the Specters to guard against air)
6) Buggies. (decent vs. Orcas, and EMP will dissuade people from crushing your rocket mass. They're second-echelon units)
7) MCV. (Obelisks + SAMs + CPB Shredders)
8) Reckoner (for defense. Put one of these next to your War Factory + 3 Rocket soldiers and it will take a lot of Preds to break it before Rails)
9) Redeemer (meatshield + flame + rage)

Don't make more than 1 or 2 Purifiers, if at all. They're useless.

Rocket Militia are your gamewinners. If you can use these and ConCabs well, mixed in with some tank, artillery, and base-defense support, you can do pretty well.

Aircraft are your Achilles heel. Bikes deal with Hawks, SAMs deal with Hammers. Bring the MCV.

Also, watch out if your opponent is massing Slingshots and your army is all infantry. It wasn't a hotkey mistake.

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# 9AgentMiles Mar 13 2010, 09:08 AM
i just find this out... first go 2wf 4 bugyes and 10 bikes. careful don't suicide the bikes.. mean time expand and try to get to tier 3
if he goes preds do manspam + purifiers and use 1 clicks to get his refinerys.
vs Gdi, purifiers + manspam is OP , and also go for the redemer + manspam
With bikes just keep going around, try to get a harvester and retreat when he is coming.

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# 10Eph2.8-9 Mar 14 2010, 19:15 PM
QUOTE(-2haRd-Rubini @ Mar 13 2010, 03:08 AM) *

i just find this out... first go 2wf 4 bugyes and 10 bikes. careful don't suicide the bikes.. mean time expand and try to get to tier 3
if he goes preds do manspam + purifiers and use 1 clicks to get his refinerys.
vs Gdi, purifiers + manspam is OP , and also go for the redemer + manspam
With bikes just keep going around, try to get a harvester and retreat when he is coming.


Lol, Juggs + Shockwave + APCs cleans out Purifiers and manspam. Purifiers are pretty much junk versus GDI, they only prevent Shatterers and Slingshot crushing, but that's an expensive way to do it. Redeemer is better.

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# 11AgentMiles Mar 14 2010, 19:41 PM
QUOTE(Eph2.8-9 @ Mar 14 2010, 20:15 PM) *

Lol, Juggs + Shockwave + APCs cleans out Purifiers and manspam. Purifiers are pretty much junk versus GDI, they only prevent Shatterers and Slingshot crushing, but that's an expensive way to do it. Redeemer is better.


Yes it gets owned but why the f*** u got bikes? and if u see Juggs + Apc's u should adapt to it. Make specters, and redemer... eh there are many possibility..

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# 12zookerz Apr 6 2010, 01:23 AM
Bikes for harrassment. They move all their troops out to clash with yours and then you send in bikes, forcing them to either retreat some troops or create more. And also for anti orca reasoning.

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# 13Eph2.8-9 Apr 6 2010, 01:43 AM
QUOTE(-2haRd-Rubini @ Mar 14 2010, 14:41 PM) *

Yes it gets owned but why the f*** u got bikes? and if u see Juggs + Apc's u should adapt to it. Make specters, and redemer... eh there are many possibility..


So if you know what they're going to build in the first place (APCs + Juggs is standard for GDI lategame versus Black Hand plus maybe a MARV), why not just go ahead and build the more effective unit (aka, the Redeemer) in the first place? For crying out loud, Purifiers lose to Preds, whereas at least the Redeemer can take them on, albeit briefly. Specters are pretty good against Juggs, but it's map dependent, since on an open map they are less effective.

If you can get multiple Purifiers or a Redeemer, enough bikes to pose a serious threat to Juggs + APCs, AND a sizable manspam, then you've probably got a massive economic boost, or he hasn't been attacking you at all. Which means that you've either won, or you've got a world of hurt coming in the form of Juggs, and Shockwave to take out your mech and then APCs and Juggs, or even APCs and HH to deal with your bio. As long as there are plenty of APCs and Hammerheads to meatshield for the Juggs (and maybe a MARV or a Rig for backup) and you don't get a lucky rage or Vapor Bomb, you're going to have a hard time crushing the GDI player in the field if the economy is equal.

Unless he walks his army over a tib field and you take the lame way out.

This post has been edited by Eph2.8-9: Apr 6 2010, 01:44 AM

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# 14Zaros Apr 20 2010, 10:33 AM
tbh GDI is OP tongue.gif, bh lategame is just 1 clicks and tibcore bike / emp buggy spam. AP ammo and one shat can beat most manspam builds and duel wf preds/ap ammo apcs + airfield all in beats every duel wf build.

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# 15Eph2.8-9 Apr 22 2010, 04:08 AM
QUOTE(David.CNC @ Apr 20 2010, 05:33 AM) *

tbh GDI is OP tongue.gif, bh lategame is just 1 clicks and tibcore bike / emp buggy spam. AP ammo and one shat can beat most manspam builds and duel wf preds/ap ammo apcs + airfield all in beats every duel wf build.


Luckily they don't need their lategame that often . . . they're too busy mopping up your base b/c you couldn't scout whatever early build they went with due to ConCab/Bike anti-scout.

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# 16Zaros Apr 22 2010, 15:06 PM
oh no you cant scout the untill you get a war factory... tbh watch some dackel vs tech ^^

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# 17Spectre Apr 28 2010, 01:21 AM
When playing BH vs GDI, i make sure to send cabals in every direction for anti scout, once my harvs come out make 2 extra buggies to acompany the 1st one to kill off lone pits, then i go double wf scorp spam. They will most likely be making pits or apcs, I then move my scorps near their base and build up some bikes, while they are focused on my scorps, then move in with the bikes, then completely switch to infy/tech depending on how he reacts to being in his base.

In this match up your cabals and buggies should keep you in the fog for him, you then take control. That is how i play BH.

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# 18ultimatepwnage Oct 3 2012, 01:52 AM
If you send cabals to allspike as soon as you get your scouts out then get a ref and a war factory. I usually get 5-6 bikes and kill his harvesters. When you get only bout 2 bikes left go back and get more and harass again. Keep gdi on defensive in early-mid game. Keep his economy down and get purifying flame and 5 or 6 purifiers and set on aggresive and run through his base but If you don't kill his whole base follow up with a manspam and you should finish him. Main thing is keep gdi weak and economy horrible in early to mid game.

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# 19ultimatepwnage Apr 4 2013, 20:07 PM
like what i said before you will get owned by gdi mid game if u dont down their eco but if u keep them on their toes and constantly harass you can easily push them back. In mid game send a group of scorps 5-8 will be fine (any more than 10 is overdoing it ) and keep his production structures at bay killl them when u see them if u see he goes preds then go manspam and run him in the ground but if his eco is down and hw has no army when your scorps get to his base then blow him to pieces

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# 20'Snark' Feb 27 2014, 18:48 PM
all knows you need to spam the infatry with black hand upgrade

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