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GameReplays.org _ Zero Hour Mods & Custom Maps _ Sand Serpent Revised = Sand Scorpion

Posted by: Jundiyy Aug 30 2019, 23:05 PM

Hello,
Just thought I'd spend some hours editing Sand Serpent.
I have not changed the layout of the land, apart from where I replaced the bridges and the bottom left corner.
If you have any feedback please let me know.

Some changes look big but really are not.
Big Changes:-
- Replaced all bridges with land.
- Added small 2nd supp in main base.
- Removed 2nd supplies from the middle of the map.
- Added some supplies to the middle of the map.
- Many buildings in the bottom left corner and middle of the map have been removed or moved.

Small Changes:-
- All oils have been slightly moved to make them equal in distance to each player. (Middle oil looks off but is actually equal in distance to both players).
- Player starting pos has been moved a bit.
- Main supplies have been moved a bit.
- Reenforcement Pad has moved a bit
- Edited the small mountains and water in the bottom left corner.
- Bottom left supplies have been moved.

Download Draft 5 from https://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?s=&showtopic=1027393&view=findpost&p=10225019

Attached File Sand_Scorpion_Draft_1.rar
Size: 156.93k
Number of downloads: 33

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Posted by: 1234mp3lel Aug 30 2019, 23:27 PM

Hey Junidyy, a cool revise you did here. Its like Forgotten Ruins meets Dust Devil biggrin.gif
I like how you edited the texture of the mountains and overall layout, it became more detailed for sure!
The city had been shorted which is a nice change as well, more room for supplies and tank engagements.

But there's also small things that can be improved , for instance , the size of the entrances. Making them bigger will make the map less bunkery.

The city texturing can be revised as well , adding some concrete or rocky textures would add an eye pleasing filed to the map smile.gif

Also , maybe you can move CC position to more of centered/middle spot ?
Since a dozed can spawn too close to map's border and it won't be able to place down a power plant. When CC is in the center , it opens more room to put it in whenever spot you'd like. Giving a freedom of choosing structure placement is a good thing.

And if possible , maybe add up the value of small supply piles to the supply dock near by ? (I'm certain you know the script for that)
It would save up the space for players to build tunnels or bunkers (depending on fraction) to protect the supplies.
That's five cents from me wink.gif

Thanks for continuing mapping for the community!

-Mp3

Posted by: Leikeze Aug 31 2019, 00:18 AM

Specovik will not be pleased when he sees those textures.

"It's big Picasso work."

"Get art degree for best result."

But I loved this map before you changed it, so I'm sure I'll love it now.

Do you plan to add it to the Ranked map pool?

Posted by: Jundiyy Aug 31 2019, 03:49 AM

@mp3, ty mate smile.gif
I can make the entrances bigger yes, I did make them a bit bigger than the original, maybe a bit more is needed.

Yea agree, I didn't do a good job on the city. Will work on it.

Ok, will move it a bit more away from the side, good point, although it did feel ok in the tests.

The reason I did that was so players could use it as a 2nd supply if they wanted, so they would have more and a faster income for a short time. I can move them a bit further to allow a bit extra space though.

Thanks for all the feedback thumb.gif

@Leikeze lol yea I think so as well. If it's good enough to get RANKed then yea I'd be happy to.

Posted by: Jundiyy Aug 31 2019, 17:44 PM

I didn't move the CC as it seems fine, moved the supply piles a little away from the supply dock, check SS 1 and 2, can still move CC if it seems too close to the edge of the map.
Widened the 2 paths connecting the bases to the bottom left island and also the top right path.

Attached File Sand_Scorpion_Draft_2.rar
Size: 160.75k
Number of downloads: 28

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Posted by: 1234mp3lel Sep 1 2019, 06:52 AM

Hi Jundiyy!
I've looked at the map and yes , i'm pleased of how you've increased the size of some of the pathways smile.gif

QUOTE(Jundiyy @ Aug 31 2019, 12:44 PM)

I didn't move the CC as it seems fine, moved the supply piles a little away from the supply dock, check SS 1 and 2, can still move CC if it seems too close to the edge of the map.

Yes , now supply piles do place better!
CC can indeed be moved slightly further to the center happy.gif
Haven't saw a drastic change in city texture, but maybe i'm becoming a bit blind wacko.gif
Spoiler
If there's a possibility of adding new texture to it, this one/RockType5 is a nice choise smile.gif Attached Image

After more thorough viewing of the map , a couple bugs were spotted.
If my memory isn't bad enough , those are left from the time of Sand Serpent.
I saw that there's a really bumpy territory near top player's oil (image is provided).

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Its a bit imbalanced since bottom player's oil place has perfectly smooth territory near by.

The center path to bottom player's base isn't smoothed enough. Rough edges can be seen.

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And this sharped-looking part of top player's center pathway is in need of smoothing.

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Besides that , i'm quite thrilled with the changes you did!
Keep the good work coming thumb.gif

-Mp3

Posted by: Jundiyy Sep 1 2019, 22:59 PM

Ty MP3, done all them edits.
Since I didn't plan to edit the actual land of the map if I didn't need to, I overlooked all them.

For your happiness, CC has been moved, much more space smile.gif

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Think the city looks a bit better now, I thought you wanted some grass in there first, that is what I did the first time.

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I also cleaned up that pointy area and other pointy areas.

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Draft 3

Attached File Sand_Scorpion_Draft_3.rar
Size: 161.87k
Number of downloads: 25

Posted by: 1234mp3lel Sep 2 2019, 06:56 AM

QUOTE(Jundiyy @ Sep 1 2019, 17:59 PM)

Ty MP3, done all them edits.
Since I didn't plan to edit the actual land of the map if I didn't need to, I overlooked all them.

Think the city looks a bit better now, I thought you wanted some grass in there first, that is what I did the first time.

I also cleaned up that pointy area and other pointy areas.

Nicely done work Jundiyy, you've manage to fix those annoying moments Sand Serpent had , i like it!
I was thinking of a mix between grassy and rocky texture. I can see you've done that smile.gif
"Pointy" areas were a bit of frustrating parts of the map , thankfully , they're gone now.

QUOTE(Jundiyy @ Sep 1 2019, 17:59 PM)

For your happiness, CC has been moved, much more space smile.gif


Man , looks delightful blush.gif
I appreciate that.

Spoiler

If anything can be looked over and changed , that might be map's border.
It's not properly adjusted, meaning that you can build patriot/gatling or a tunnel in the dark area.
This can occur on the upper side of top player's base , and right -hand side for bottom player.


I'll stay tune for more news in regards to this map.
Thanks for considering the suggestions Jundiyy!

-Mp3

Posted by: Leikeze Sep 2 2019, 16:49 PM

Mhmm, much better. thum.gif
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Posted by: Jundiyy Sep 2 2019, 16:59 PM

Draft 4


Attached File Sand_Scorpion_Draft_4.rar
Size: 161.93k
Number of downloads: 24


@MP3 Didn't know it had a border problem like Defcon does, probably because I hardly play this map.
Fixed anyway, ty.

@Leikeze, ty

Posted by: Quadriple Sep 2 2019, 20:08 PM

QUOTE(Jundiyy @ Aug 30 2019, 23:05 PM) *

If you have any feedback please let me know.

Some changes look big but really are not.
Big Changes:-
- Replaced all bridges with land. V Nicely done, more space but still chokepoints all smile.gif
- Added small 2nd supp in main base. V Nice small addition, does not change the map much
- Removed 2nd supplies from the middle of the map. V With the other changes its ok
- Added some supplies to the middle of the map. V+ Plz add two more supply crates here, to the right of the existing ones. A little more incentive for alternative strategies + more equally devided.
- Many buildings in the bottom left corner and middle of the map have been removed or moved.
~ I would prefer 3 buildings in mid to occupy, but 2 is ok. X The entire square + buildings on the bottom island should be moved near the 3 bridges crossing. This is a big bad change for the map.

Small Changes:-
- All oils have been slightly moved to make them equal in distance to each player. (Middle oil looks off but is actually equal in distance to both players). V Well done.
- Player starting pos has been moved a bit. V Seems fair by the look and feel of it
- Main supplies have been moved a bit. V
- Reenforcement Pad has moved a bit V
- Edited the small mountains and water in the bottom left corner. V Looks good
- Bottom left supplies have been moved. V Note that the right supply is quite a bit further away from the shoreline/right 'bridge' then the left supply is from the shoreline/left 'bridge'. Not sure how this affects the gameplay, it probably doesn't. So no problem, but if it does, that needs a revisit.

Nice job on a cool original map Jundiyy, I made some comments near the changes.
Overall I feel like the map is still the same, but improved, still I feel something missing lay-out wise. Maybe an oasis on each side, or some rocks would complete it. Nice points by mp3 which you implemented right away,

Good work thumb.gif

Posted by: Jundiyy Sep 2 2019, 20:28 PM

QUOTE(Quadriple @ Sep 2 2019, 20:08 PM) *

Nice job on a cool original map Jundiyy, I made some comments near the changes.
Overall I feel like the map is still the same, but improved, still I feel something missing lay-out wise. Maybe an oasis on each side, or some rocks would complete it. Nice points by mp3 which you implemented right away,

Good work thumb.gif


Thanks and thank you for the feedback thumb.gif

My initial intention was not to change the map apart from the bridges, as they make it real bunkery, plus bridges only allow a certain amount of units to go across at the same time, whereas the land lets much more units, till it's all filled up from side to side actually. I could add some extra goodies into the map I suppose.

When I started changing it, I noticed other things which weren't right, so I changed them. Regarding the supplies in the bottom left corner, yes they look off and looks like there is more space, but they are exactly equal in distance from the CCs. Moving the bottom one back to its original place would mean the bottom player getting there quicker. Same goes for the oil in the middle of the map, looks very off but it is now the same distance.
I did that for all Tech buildings and Supplies.

I can add 2 more supply crates yes, shouldn't be a problem.

Bottom island, moving the buildings away from the bridges makes it much harder to conquer and bunker, you need to put much more effort into it now, what do you think? Had some players test it today and they felt it was better in the way I mentioned. Let me know your thoughts or why you think other way is better.

Posted by: Quadriple Sep 2 2019, 21:55 PM

QUOTE(Jundiyy @ Sep 2 2019, 20:28 PM) *

Thanks and thank you for the feedback thumb.gif

My initial intention was not to change the map apart from the bridges, as they make it real bunkery, plus bridges only allow a certain amount of units to go across at the same time, whereas the land lets much more units, till it's all filled up from side to side actually. I could add some extra goodies into the map I suppose.

When I started changing it, I noticed other things which weren't right, so I changed them. Regarding the supplies in the bottom left corner, yes they look off and looks like there is more space, but they are exactly equal in distance from the CCs. Moving the bottom one back to its original place would mean the bottom player getting there quicker. Same goes for the oil in the middle of the map, looks very off but it is now the same distance.
I did that for all Tech buildings and Supplies.

I can add 2 more supply crates yes, shouldn't be a problem.

Bottom island, moving the buildings away from the bridges makes it much harder to conquer and bunker, you need to put much more effort into it now, what do you think? Had some players test it today and they felt it was better in the way I mentioned. Let me know your thoughts or why you think other way is better.

Yes I can see that, and you did a very good job. I just feel a minor something is missing, now that all the terrains is flattened & smooth accessible. So maybe an extra texture, oasis, rock makes it feel/look better still.

The oil and tech buildings locations are great, no issue there. I think although there is more space on the bottom island, next to the right supply pile, it does not change that much. Just that a defense covers both entrance & supply on the left side, and on the right side it does not. Testing would be good.

Fighting over the occupiable buildings is essential to control the bottom island and thus should be there. At the very least more in the middle instead of the bottom, with the edge of reach being top near/of the supplies.

Posted by: Jundiyy Sep 2 2019, 22:58 PM

QUOTE(Quadriple @ Sep 2 2019, 21:55 PM) *

Yes I can see that, and you did a very good job. I just feel a minor something is missing, now that all the terrains is flattened & smooth accessible. So maybe an extra texture, oasis, rock makes it feel/look better still.


Thank you, will see what I can do.

QUOTE(Quadriple @ Sep 2 2019, 21:55 PM) *

The oil and tech buildings locations are great, no issue there. I think although there is more space on the bottom island, next to the right supply pile, it does not change that much. Just that a defense covers both entrance & supply on the left side, and on the right side it does not. Testing would be good.


I really don't understand this? Can you explain a bit more please?

QUOTE(Quadriple @ Sep 2 2019, 21:55 PM) *

Fighting over the occupiable buildings is essential to control the bottom island and thus should be there. At the very least more in the middle instead of the bottom, with the edge of reach being top near/of the supplies.


That is true, it's just that it helps with the bunkering a lo, if the entrances were bigger I suppose it wouldn't matter as much, I'll see if I can move a few things.



One of the things which is kind of making it hard, is the imbalanced land, now that I have balanced all the supplies and tech buildings, you can see how the land isn't really fair. I could of course reduce or increase in places but then it kind of messes up the original map. Which I didn't really want to do...so which way do I go?

I could for example, reduce the extra land (in the corner island) at the right for the bottom player, or make the top player's 'bridge' closer to him since it's further away, or the middle island could be made more fair, since it's obvious now looking at the oil and supplies, how far off it is.

Posted by: Leikeze Sep 3 2019, 00:32 AM

Spoiler
Don't mess up the original map.

Balance is important, however, when it comes at the price of making generic something unique, it is sometimes too much to pay.

This is just my usual heavily-biased opinion on those cool old official maps. cool2.gif

Posted by: JarmenElectra Sep 3 2019, 01:17 AM

QUOTE(Jundiyy @ Sep 1 2019, 22:59 PM) *

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this is the kinda place where I see ROLL living

Posted by: Quadriple Sep 3 2019, 17:57 PM

QUOTE(Jundiyy @ Sep 2 2019, 22:58 PM) *

I really don't understand this? Can you explain a bit more please?
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One of the things which is kind of making it hard, is the imbalanced land, now that I have balanced all the supplies and tech buildings, you can see how the land isn't really fair. I could of course reduce or increase in places but then it kind of messes up the original map. Which I didn't really want to do...so which way do I go?

I agree keeping true to the original, tho this just needs a small strip of land removed, the river can even stay the same shape. Would not bother me nor change it much, certainly for a fair cause and I like this map alot
QUOTE(Jundiyy @ Sep 2 2019, 22:58 PM) *

That is true, it's just that it helps with the bunkering a lo, if the entrances were bigger I suppose it wouldn't matter as much, I'll see if I can move a few things.

Well that is true, maybe just move it so that the bunkers can just fire/not fire on the edges of the 3 island bridges crossing. Then it becomes a skill/awareness thing, because with the civ buildings you can fire further manually as you know biggrin.gif Less campy, though still important for control over the bottom island.

Posted by: -ExiLe` Sep 3 2019, 18:52 PM

QUOTE(Quadriple @ Sep 3 2019, 19:57 PM) *

I agree keeping true to the original, tho this just needs a small strip of land removed, the river can even stay the same shape. Would not bother me nor change it much, certainly for a fair cause and I like this map alot

Well that is true, maybe just move it so that the bunkers can just fire/not fire on the edges of the 3 island bridges crossing. Then it becomes a skill/awareness thing, because with the civ buildings you can fire further manually as you know biggrin.gif Less campy, though still important for control over the bottom island.


Didn't read all, but refering to "keeping it original": Remember there already is a balanced version made by cnchd. The gameplay in this version is already a different with the extra supply piles at home and I personally like the idea that the island is less campy and the game is not instantly decided when the first bunker is build there. I played the map, it feels different but I like it, it feels bigger scaled and more dynamic.

Posted by: Specovik Sep 4 2019, 18:42 PM

Leikeze, bro! Only you understand my wub.gif

in fact - map looks pretty.
beauty is in imperfection.

Posted by: Leikeze Sep 4 2019, 21:56 PM

The master of textures has spoken.

Now the map is ready.

Posted by: Jundiyy Sep 11 2019, 14:23 PM

Alright, I think this is now finished, if there isn't anything major, I think I will just release the final version in a few days.

Just added in 2 more buildings, edited a bit of land in the bottom left island and a bit in the middle to allow room to make supplies on both sides.
Few rocks and other nice things but that's it really.

Attached File Sand_Scorpion_Draft_5.rar
Size: 165.12k
Number of downloads: 34

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Posted by: Quadriple Sep 11 2019, 18:09 PM

QUOTE(Jundiyy @ Sep 11 2019, 14:23 PM) *

Alright, I think this is now finished, if there isn't anything major, I think I will just release the final version in a few days.

Just added in 2 more buildings, edited a bit of land in the bottom left island and a bit in the middle to allow room to make supplies on both sides.
Few rocks and other nice things but that's it really.

Looks great, well done! Bye bye Sand Serpent biggrin.gif

Posted by: Leikeze Sep 12 2019, 00:07 AM

QUOTE(Quadriple @ Sep 11 2019, 13:09 PM) *

Looks great, well done! Bye bye Sand Serpent biggrin.gif

Good riddance!
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Posted by: Jundiyy Sep 12 2019, 09:55 AM

QUOTE(Quadriple @ Sep 11 2019, 18:09 PM) *

Looks great, well done! Bye bye Sand Serpent biggrin.gif



QUOTE(Leikeze @ Sep 12 2019, 00:07 AM) *

Good riddance!

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Lol thank you

Posted by: JarmenElectra Sep 13 2019, 15:24 PM

many noobs enjoy broken sand serpent tho and me getting the spot with a missing supply

Posted by: Leikeze Sep 13 2019, 17:33 PM

QUOTE(JarmenElectra @ Sep 13 2019, 10:24 AM) *

many noobs enjoy broken sand serpent tho and me getting the spot with a missing supply

It's not as bad as Silent River or a few other maps with a good side.

Posted by: JarmenElectra Sep 13 2019, 21:28 PM

QUOTE(Leikeze @ Sep 13 2019, 17:33 PM) *

It's not as bad as Silent River or a few other maps with a good side.

Wait silent river has a good side? I always end up bottom is that the good side?

Posted by: Leikeze Sep 13 2019, 22:39 PM

QUOTE(JarmenElectra @ Sep 13 2019, 16:28 PM) *

Wait silent river has a good side? I always end up bottom is that the good side?

The top is the good side.

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