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*Balanced* Defcon map, not so balanced

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# 21Specovik Nov 12 2019, 19:31 PM
QUOTE(FireLorD` @ Nov 12 2019, 18:13 PM) *

I really dislike the ramps and is it possible to just make all 6 islands the same size?

Noup. if you make all the islands of equal size - it will be a completely different map. I really donít like the ramps either (the more the territory of the central players increases along the edges, the sharper the difference in height on these ramps). however, the Legionnaireís proposal to lower the height of the islands and fill the corners of the map with mountains, reducing the size of the side islands - this proposal seems at least curious, I would like to work with the map in this direction tomorrow (although the map will again be even more different from original =/).

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# 22xezon Nov 12 2019, 20:11 PM
The world is ready for Defcon 7.

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# 23cncHD Nov 12 2019, 20:12 PM
QUOTE(xezon @ Nov 12 2019, 20:11 PM) *

The world is ready for Defcon 7.

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LOL

well, wait, this actualy gives me a very nice idea for a 1vs6 hard AIs Video biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

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# 24Specovik Nov 12 2019, 20:15 PM
Yea, we can did special fun version for 7 player in centr smile.gif

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# 25Mp3 Nov 12 2019, 22:59 PM
QUOTE(Specovik @ Nov 12 2019, 14:31 PM) *

Noup. if you make all the islands of equal size - it will be a completely different map. I really donít like the ramps either (the more the territory of the central players increases along the edges, the sharper the difference in height on these ramps). however, the Legionnaireís proposal to lower the height of the islands and fill the corners of the map with mountains, reducing the size of the side islands - this proposal seems at least curious, I would like to work with the map in this direction tomorrow (although the map will again be even more different from original =/).

So are you going to fix it , or I can also join in ?
You didn't even notify me about it sad.gif

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# 26Specovik Nov 13 2019, 04:28 AM
Ну вот я как раз и написал, что поработаю над этим сегодня smile.gif хотя, если ты уже сам приступил к изменениям вчера, тогда не буду мешать.
MODERATION NOTICE
Translation
Well, I just wrote that I’ll work on it today smile.gif although, if you have started doing changes yesterday, then I won’t interfere.

Leikeze, SDM logo_smilie2.gif


This post has been edited by Leikeze: Nov 13 2019, 21:31 PM

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# 27Mp3 Nov 13 2019, 05:38 AM
QUOTE(Specovik @ Nov 12 2019, 23:28 PM) *

Ну вот я как раз и написал, что поработаю над этим сегодня smile.gif хотя, если ты уже сам приступил к изменениям вчера, тогда не буду мешать.

Hey man.
Nope , I didn't do any changes to v4
Unfortunately, I'm busy with RL stuff atm. So can't really work on the map.
However , if you'll be done with the fifth version, could you please send it to me beforehand? I really want to help ya out or finalize it smile.gif
RUS (special for u Spec)

NOTE FOR ANY MOD - It was previously stated that a non-eng comment has the right to stay if the correct translation is given. Which is why I've wrote it first , and only then added a foreign text. Thank you for understanding.




Привет Спец.
Нет , я никакие изменения в v4 не делал.
К сожалению, ныне я слегка загружен личной жизнью. Потому не могу поработать над картой.
Но , если ты сможешь закончить пятую версию , можно ты мне её отправишь как можно первее? Я очень хочу помочь те в её завершении smile.gif

P.S to everyone (especially sCuBa and Legi , surprise to see here btw. Now I can say I lost a bet of saying you'll dodge on playing balance defcon tongue.gif) I've seen and take notice of all the feedback that has been send here. Right now , I think Spec will make v5 into a reality , and I'll see if there's a need of my involvement in modifying / continuing it smile.gif

-Mp3

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# 28Specovik Nov 14 2019, 17:17 PM
QUOTE(Jundiyy @ Nov 12 2019, 13:57 PM) *

A very small solution combined with Legionnaire'a would be, make the map a bit bigger in the north and south, then make the mountains in the corner bases.

IPB Image
One of feature WorldBuilder is that it is technically impossible to expand any map to the south, good joke laugh.gif

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# 29Jundiyy Nov 14 2019, 21:01 PM
Lol.
You misunderstood, expand the map, not the border alone.
You can do it if you use expand.

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# 30Specovik Nov 14 2019, 21:24 PM
Anyway).
Sorry Mp3, but for me better if i do several versions now.
So.
I wanted to make several options for the map, but there wasnít enough time for everything (Iíve been sitting in the editor for 5 hours now, lol)
all versions have 2 small changes (as Legioner want - 3 supplies betven right-left islands and off fence in oils)
V5a: changed the height of the islands (192->140). this allowed a slight increase in the size of the middle islands. Done.
V5b: + center of the map is returned, almost as in the original. Done.
V5c: + mountains around the edges of the map. before I bring them into visual order, I have to find out if the area of these mountains is normal. Pls watch.
V5d: + the central islands at the edges are enlarged, due to a slight cutback in the side islands (in my opinion, it looks good).
v5e: -(minus) half of "mountains around the edges of the map" need watch.
v5f: -(minus) mountains around the edges of the map, +central islands at the edges are enlarged, due to a slight cutback in the side islands. Done.

please do not delay with answers. Which of these versions is the most promising?


Attached File(s)
Attached File Defcon_Balanced_ZH_v5a.rar
Size: 275.42k
Number of downloads: 3
Attached File Defcon_Balanced_ZH_v5b.rar
Size: 280.18k
Number of downloads: 4
Attached File Defcon_Balanced_ZH_v5cNotRel.rar
Size: 310.58k
Number of downloads: 5
Attached File Defcon_Balanced_ZH_v5eNotRel.rar
Size: 295.96k
Number of downloads: 7
Attached File Defcon_Balanced_ZH_v5f.rar
Size: 281.61k
Number of downloads: 3

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# 31Mp3 Nov 15 2019, 21:36 PM
Hey Roman (Spec)!

I've looked at all the versions you've done (I think from A to F) and I think the last one (the 5cNoRel) is looking promising in continuing. Since you returned the defcon'ish middle back to the map and added the hills , that are great in balancing out the territory of each island.

Somethings are still untouched , for instance the ramps may need to be smoothed a bit more and the hills are still in the early stage of making (I could always continue working on that if you want smile.gif)
I'm unsure if you've done anything to central ramps to each base.
However if you did or planning to, excl.gif please let me know
I've done a crucial change to them that fixes bunker firing ability (making the infantry inside fire freely , in every direction, without hitting/damaging the bunker itself), if the ramps are going to get changed , that ability have to be re-implemented again.
So far , I'm a fan of how you did each version.
Would stick to v5cNoRel.

-Mp3

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# 32HanDofDooM^ Nov 17 2019, 15:37 PM
I'm currently making lobbies in gameranger to test the v4 version of the map. I'll let you know of any addition suggestions/bugs.

Would love to see this map in gentool's pack. It promotes expansion and less lengthy games overall because you cannot bunker as much.

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# 33HanDofDooM^ Nov 17 2019, 15:41 PM
I'm currently making lobbies in gameranger to test the v4 version of the map. I'll let you know of any addition suggestions/bugs.

Would love to see this map in gentool's pack. It promotes expansion and less lengthy games overall because you cannot bunker as much.

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# 34Specovik Nov 18 2019, 05:53 AM
QUOTE(Mp3 @ Nov 16 2019, 00:36 AM) *

Hey Roman (Spec)!

I've looked at all the versions you've done (I think from A to F) and I think the last one (the 5cNoRel) is looking promising in continuing. Since you returned the defcon'ish middle back to the map and added the hills , that are great in balancing out the territory of each island.

Somethings are still untouched , for instance the ramps may need to be smoothed a bit more and the hills are still in the early stage of making (I could always continue working on that if you want smile.gif)
I'm unsure if you've done anything to central ramps to each base.
However if you did or planning to, excl.gif please let me know
I've done a crucial change to them that fixes bunker firing ability (making the infantry inside fire freely , in every direction, without hitting/damaging the bunker itself), if the ramps are going to get changed , that ability have to be re-implemented again.
So far , I'm a fan of how you did each version.
Would stick to v5cNoRel.

-Mp3


I tried not to touch the central passes, but a little they were still touch. the side passes should be all right.new mountains are also ready, just not textured. Tnx for respond
--------------

Guys, you're the best! thanks to all of your many answers, I was able to continue working even faster! I didnít even hope for feedback, because to check all these versions and express opinion, you need to spend as much as 10 minutes of your precious time. and yet, I received an enormous number of reviews in just a few days - well done! (no)

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# 35`Legionnaire Nov 18 2019, 11:44 AM
I'm going to give my feedback again on the new maps. Remember, I speak STRICTLY from a 2v2v2 and FFA perspective because I feel Defcon 6 (the normal one) is already balanced for 3v3.

Personally I like a lot of the changes but I have some more feedback. The fences with the Oil Derricks are good now.


Lowered ground in middle

The ground is lowered in the middle like in the original, which I like. The only thing I feel that can be improved here is the texturing. Right now it's hard to spot where the height starts to drop. For Rocket Buggy micro this matters.

IPB Image

Left: With wireframe showing; you can clearly see where the ground starts to go down;
Right: How it currently looks.

What I propose is to change the textures here. It can be anything you like, really. Just I think it will help players to 100% see where the decline starts. Here's a quick (ugly) example:
IPB Image


Island reshaping; middle islands larger

I understand what you were trying to do here, and it's a good attempt, but I don't think this will work very well. It makes it easier to bunker for the middle islands with an army of Nuke Cannons. Probably it's best to change this back to the original way it was.

The trench between the top left and top middle player compared to the top right and bottom right player is only half the size.
IPB Image

That being said, the trenches don't need to have identical lengths, but 320 vs 150 difference in size is too much.


3 Cash piles

You left the middle left and middle right cash piles as 4 small supply piles. This is not balanced from a FFA standpoint, I'd recommend keeping trench supply piles the same (of which I think 3 per trench is fine).


Corner cliffs on NotRel

v5c = Bad (Bikes/air units can easily go into the corner bases now)
v5e = Perfect


And that's all my feedback! Again, my feedback is just my opinion and I'm not telling the mappers to do anything. It is their work and their projects and it's looking great! Keep up the good work, guys! smile.gif Mind you, if you want I can also just talk to you directly on Discord as I don't go on these forums too often. Discord: Legionnaire#7341

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# 36`Legionnaire Dec 12 2019, 20:03 PM
Any updates on this?

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# 37Mp3 Dec 12 2019, 20:43 PM
QUOTE(`Legionnaire @ Dec 12 2019, 15:03 PM) *

Any updates on this?

The progress on the map will resume as soon as the communication with other guy (Specovik) will be reached (OPEN THE DISCROD ROMAN!). If it's possible for you to gave out a few more ideas or new features that should be included into the next version (finalized v5, without the 5.c or NoRef marks), I would be more then happier in applying them smile.gif
This topic have died out mainly due to inactivity, as there's a few people that have spoke up in regards with what's wrong with v4 or the original defcon. It appears that the majority of the community is satisfied with the original map, and any possible tweaks that could make it better aren't welcomed.

I do thank you for sending a well written and constructive feedback for the map, especially from an experienced FFA player!
It would be a miracle to see more ppl like Crazy or Humanity saying a thing or two about the map as well, as they've had a long experience in team-games. Wildhide, I'd like to see your opinion as well. You haven't talked much since the release of v4 ohmy.gif.

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