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# 41pingtoft Aug 9 2009, 03:28 AM
QUOTE(D@nny @ Aug 8 2009, 21:46 PM) *

I didn't understand the 10,000 for free part or 50 percent chance to win 22,000
why the multiplying out if it doesnt hold true 22,000 times .5 = 11,000 sure but its not 10,000 versus 11,000 its still 10,000 versus 20k or 0.

It's 11,000 because expected value = prize * chance-of-winning, or in other words: if you could take the 'bet' a lot of times you would on average get 11,000.

Posts: 4,341

Game: Company of Heroes

# 42Scottie_theNerd Aug 9 2009, 12:13 PM
Excellent article. Went into great detail and used good examples to connect a particular mentality (in this case, economics) to the game. Certainly food for thought, and something to keep in mind when reflecting on how to improve one's gameplay.

Posts: 206

Game: Company of Heroes

# 43Foyle Aug 9 2009, 16:58 PM
This is the type of article that I wish was written more often. Awesome job.

It would be interesting to write an article based on the Economics of upgrades, as others have suggested - not only those upgrades that increase income (supply yard), but also those that increase military effectiveness. Should I upgrade to BARS, or should I wait for 70 more MP and make a second squad? Should I buy some Wehr Vet, when I only have a couple sqauds? Should I invest in vet for units I might not use?

Anyway, great job. I want to see more of these in depth large articles on GR.

Posts: 335

Game: Company of Heroes

# 44Milivoj Milani Aug 10 2009, 09:10 AM
Dear Sir,

this article is a pioneering work in Company of Heroes analysis. Though, if I may, Company of Heroes examples and parallels are too general and do not go in enough detail, maybe you will post a second study.

I'd be free to post a few questions to you:

1. First of all, what is the value of resources?

If we could invent a currency for Company of Heroes game, how much would 100 manpower or 10 fuel cost? My guess would be that it would depend on the map played, and that 270 mp would approximately cost the same as 20 fuel on 40 fuel map.

2. Is there such a thing as business value of units?

This is one tough question. Units do not have market value, they cannot be sold for 50$. Unit value heavily depends on opponents unit selection. Jeeps are valuable against snipers, but invaluable against infantry etc. I think game theory is more suitable to this then economics.

Posts: 6

# 45SgtBulldog Aug 10 2009, 10:41 AM
Good article.

Now we're just waiting for someone to come along and make a legal analysis of CoH...

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Game: Company of Heroes

# 46Ramajama420 Aug 10 2009, 15:28 PM
QUOTE(Hefster @ Aug 7 2009, 16:41 PM) *

Hi Everyone!
I dont regularly write anything on these forums, but I read them to learn and get a bit better at this game. (I am a level 10 brit in 2v2 with about 600 games¨played). I registered only to make a comment on this thread.

I was thinking of writing a similiar article, but instead of how a game like COH can teach you think strategically, which is important in business.

I go to a top Business School (USC Marshall School of Business), so all these concepts were familiar to me. From my point of view the article was mediocre, it was fun and original, but at the same time lame and far-fetched. The tie in from Business concepts was often poor. Most surprisingly he did not metion the SWOT-analysis, as a useful concept for a COH player. And I am extremely surprised that others who work as consultants or go to business school did not react to this.

SWOT Analysis explained:
  • Strenghts
  • Weaknesses
  • Opportunities
  • Threats
The first two are internal. You look at your organisation/army and ask yourself "What are my strenghts? What resources do I have and what I cand I achieve with them?", and you also evaluate your Weaknesses by asking "How am I vulnerable, what am I lacking in, what am I not able to do?"

You go on and look at the externals, outside of your organisation. What are the opportunities "What opportunities are there out there for me? What is out there and what can be done with it?" In the game this translates primarily into looking at the weaknesses of your opponnent. As well as threats "What is out there, and how can it hurt me/my orgnaisation/army", which to me translates into looking at the strenghts of your opponents. But its also important to look at the terrain and such.

After that you make sure to try and match your strenghts with the opportunities, so that your abilities fit with the opportunities, so that your strenghts fit with your opponents weaknesses and the opportunities presented by the map and terrain. And then you make sure that your weaknesses do not match the threats, so that your vulnerabilities do not match with the strengths of your opponent(s).

I found that I often did this in Coh, without conciously choosing the Swot analysis. That is what prompted me to have the idea to write such an article as well. I think however, that doing it really well would be tough (I was considering submitting it to a business daily).

Coming from someone relatively senior in the corporate world (I am responsible for 3.5mil GBP annually) You will find that the SWOT is generally overused and more often (as has been said already) appropriate to a specific person/choice/business. TBH, I have heard it bandied around as the be-all end-all of strategic thinking, and more often than not people use it incorrectly, so I tend to think of it as the latest university catch phrase.

I thought the article was great, and particularly relevant in the context of TVM. It is a concept that can definitely improve your game, and holds real business relevance in today's cash flow focussed economy. I spend more time these days looking at average trade working capital than I do at revenue and gross margin. Two years ago, no one cared about debt and supplier payment terms. Well written Warhawks.

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Game: Company of Heroes

# 47aXxXa Aug 11 2009, 13:05 PM
Very nice article. You dont think about teaching CoH economics as a university course?

I think you explained alot of econ. terms better than alot of teachers i had in several courses, and its pretty fun how you manage to connect them to CoH.

//axXxa / fearMyhairylegs

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Game: Dawn of War 2

# 48SuperSoca Aug 11 2009, 14:32 PM
Good Work.
I liked too much the "Sunk Cost" and "Risk Theory" concepts. This can open our mind in the game and RL too!

Posts: 44

Game: Company of Heroes

# 49Riisto Aug 11 2009, 17:35 PM
Greets from Lappeenranta University of Technology. Great read - made me realize again where my interests lie... in CoH tongue.gif

As Warhawks said - please continue the discussion!

Posts: 1,560

Game: Company of Heroes

# 50Ibanex Aug 11 2009, 22:26 PM
VERY good article,

altho now that i have read the article i can see that how it applies to COH , but to go back on the SWOT thingy , i find it easier to just ask yourself the question "why?" before and during and after every decision that you or your oponents make for example:

you won a t1 battle, why? your volks had superior range and cover over your oponets rifles

you repeled a flank, why? your mg surpressed the main body of the atack alowing your volks and pios to push off the flanking forces.

you have map control - why ? because you just won all t1 major battles

your oponents has gonne quick bars - why? because you have most of the map and are ahead in the fuel battle, and his inf desperatly need a buff vs your forces to give them the edge.

you are goin for the quick t3 and puma - why ? because your oponent is using bars hasnt got mutch fuel left and he will be completly defenceless from armour for quite a while.....

so on so forth this in my view is a more easy cncept for beginers to grasp and for us humans to do on a more "natural" and instant fation than to think all about that economics stuff, im an engineering student and for me economics sounds like german (i can only speak english tongue.gif ) and this methodical and logical why question seems far better to me smile.gif

anyways realy enjoyed the read and its a very good article with the vids and all , altho i only understood a small part of it wacko.gif

Posts: 61

Game: Company of Heroes

# 51Jarysa Aug 13 2009, 17:38 PM
Let me start out with saying that i study sociology, which goes hand in hand with disliking business students and spending half your day with making fun of them.

QUOTE(D@nny @ Aug 8 2009, 19:46 PM) *

I didn't understand the 10,000 for free part or 50 percent chance to win 22,000
why the multiplying out if it doesnt hold true 22,000 times .5 = 11,000 sure but its not 10,000 versus 11,000 its still 10,000 versus 20k or 0.

It´s because the author left out half of the second equation because it´s equal to 0.

Case 1: You take the money

$10k * 1 = $10k

You will surely agree that taking the money grant a Chance of 1 (as in 100%) to get $10k, so $10k is what you expect to get in that case.

Case 2: You go for the coin flip

$22k * 0.5 + $0 * 0.5 = $11k

It´s a 0.5 (50%) chance to get 22k and a 0.5 chance to get nada. If you did this an infinite number of times you would expect to get $11k/try on average. Therefore this option is mathematically superior.

This is where classical economics fail to predict human behavior.

Remember "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?"?
When you are at the $125k to $500k step, know jack shit about the answer and have zero jokers left mathematically YOU WOULD STILL HAVE TO GUESS as $125k < 1/4 * $500k + 3/4 * whatever your safety is.
I´ve never seen anyone do that. Not even a maths teacher that was very aware of the situation.

Business School is just high school maths* and basic thinking anyway.

The CoH-related tips in the article are good but nothing really new, the business part is just bullshit. There even is a commercial in there!

*Actually referring to the German equivalent here. Guess you learn basic statistics everywhere.

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# 52Moliat Jun 18 2010, 15:14 PM
Very high quality work!

I am applying for business management studies abroad next year, and though I have only had the IB Economics Higher Level, I already knew many of the terms, but I still learned a whole lot! Economics, though it may be a simple term for it, is a very interest area of knowledge, and I did not expect seeing something like this on GameReplays.

Very well written and explained, and thank you for taking the time!

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Game: Bad Company 2

# 53pathfindergold May 20 2012, 19:58 PM
This is really cool. I really liked the article and the details you put it into it, especially the math. A lot of this applies to my AP Statistic class I just took too.

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Game: Company of Heroes 2

# 54DaRealRocky Jun 2 2012, 21:31 PM
I remember this one finding awesome aswell.

If you gotta study exams of economy => just come read this shit tongue.gif

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# 55MajorBloodnok Jun 8 2012, 18:18 PM
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# 56Basilone™ Aug 2 2012, 22:50 PM
So true, especially the part about sunk cost fallacy. So many games I've lost because I wasted tons of resources on tanks vs mass AT just because "I spent the fuel to tech for tanks." Glad I stumbled on this, better late than never. smile.gif

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Clan: Reborn

Game: Company of Heroes

# 57Campaigner Sep 9 2012, 22:06 PM
The thing I know I'm guilty of is sunk cost fallacy.

If I build a Tank Depot, Panzer Command or Panzer Support Kommand then I feel I HAVE to build something from it cause otherwise it feels like wasted resources!

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Game: Company of Heroes


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