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The under powered Maxim

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# 1Funky Ducky Aug 23 2013, 00:38 AM
I believe the Maxim to be far inferior to the MG42 and that it needs a serious boost. Yes, it does more damage (on paper) and it does have a very quick setup time, but due to it's obnoxiously small arc of fire, lack of suppression, and ease of flank I believe that it can't even begin to compete with the MG42. Before it got the nerf bat, it was able to run right up to a mg42, set up and win which I believe to be ridiculous, but now the MG42 is within the spectrum of randomness that it can occasionally win do the exact same thing which is ridiculous. With it's pathetically low amount of suppression, troops are able to kill it head on. I hate the HMG meta, but this still needs to be fixed.

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# 2mondry Aug 23 2013, 05:15 AM
I agree overall, but I also thought the maxim sucked when it was "broken" as well. They simply need to make both MG's really good in their respective ways and make them cost say 320 man power. Good enough at that price where you want one to you know, support your army, but expensive enough where just rushing 3 of them out isn't going to be effective.

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# 3Katitof Aug 23 2013, 08:42 AM
QUOTE(Funky Ducky @ Aug 23 2013, 01:38 AM) *

Yes, it does more damage (on paper)

Actually, not.
MG42 have better DPS on all ranges except far range, when its 4 dps for MG42 vs 6 dps for Maxim. In mid range and close range MG42 wins in DPS easily and by a long shot.

Maxim was overnerfed, everyone knows that and setup teams will get changes in next balance patch.

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# 4Nuclear Arbitor Aug 24 2013, 09:13 AM
last i heard the maxim did more damage because it took longer to suppress/pin, preventing the damage reduction from kicking in.

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# 5Katitof Aug 24 2013, 09:54 AM
QUOTE(Nuclear Arbitor @ Aug 24 2013, 10:13 AM) *

last i heard the maxim did more damage because it took longer to suppress/pin, preventing the damage reduction from kicking in.

Suppression damage reduction can be ignored. If it was 50% then MAYBE Maxim would outdps MG42. But it isn't, maxim is inferior in every single aspect except setup time.

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# 6Funky Ducky Aug 24 2013, 14:45 PM
QUOTE(Nuclear Arbitor @ Aug 24 2013, 03:13 AM) *

last i heard the maxim did more damage because it took longer to suppress/pin, preventing the damage reduction from kicking in.

I addressed that issue. It appears that the maxim will be able to deal more damage, but because infantry can kill it before it becomes suppressed, the "extra" damage is pointless.

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# 7vaz Aug 24 2013, 18:43 PM
It doesn't matter if it does greater dps, because it's role is for blob control and it doesn't do that role very well.

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# 8Dullahan Aug 24 2013, 23:24 PM
Maxim damage was overnerfed for sure.

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# 9Ekko Tek Aug 25 2013, 02:16 AM
Tbh I don't really care about damage on an HMG. That's not why I purchase one. No one is stupid enough to sit in its arc and try and fight it. So the damage only matters at long range for the few seconds before a squad gets suppressed and pinned and damage reduction kicks in. I buy an HMG to suppress swathes of infantry - to take them out of the fight and force a retreat - end of story. The movement speed and reposition time is nice with Maxim but it just pales in comparison to the MG42 in the most important way - arc and suppression/pin time. That's what matters the most. Any damage an HMG does is just gravy.

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# 10Dullahan Aug 25 2013, 02:38 AM
QUOTE(Ekko Tek @ Aug 24 2013, 19:16 PM) *

Tbh I don't really care about damage on an HMG. That's not why I purchase one. No one is stupid enough to sit in its arc and try and fight it. So the damage only matters at long range for the few seconds before a squad gets suppressed and pinned and damage reduction kicks in. I buy an HMG to suppress swathes of infantry - to take them out of the fight and force a retreat - end of story. The movement speed and reposition time is nice with Maxim but it just pales in comparison to the MG42 in the most important way - arc and suppression/pin time. That's what matters the most. Any damage an HMG does is just gravy.


The Maxim before would regularly get 20+ kills in the games I played, since it would kill atleast 1 guy before suppressing them. And you'd be surprised how long people stick it out vs maxim (they try and rifle grenade it for example)

It was a really good damage dealer before with the added bonus of suppressing after a half dozen burst.

Now it's a poor damage dealer with shit suppression, it's still useful for helping you beat heavy grenadier starts and you have to build them if you go for t2 start but they really aren't great anymore. They're a decent capping squad and a good grenadier counter.

I still use them, but they were really overnerfed.

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# 11mondry Aug 25 2013, 16:41 PM
QUOTE(Dullahan @ Aug 25 2013, 02:38 AM) *

The Maxim before would regularly get 20+ kills in the games I played, since it would kill atleast 1 guy before suppressing them. And you'd be surprised how long people stick it out vs maxim (they try and rifle grenade it for example)

It was a really good damage dealer before with the added bonus of suppressing after a half dozen burst.

Now it's a poor damage dealer with shit suppression, it's still useful for helping you beat heavy grenadier starts and you have to build them if you go for t2 start but they really aren't great anymore. They're a decent capping squad and a good grenadier counter.

I still use them, but they were really overnerfed.


Yeah, what they should have done is tried something really unique with it and actually give it ZERO suppression and simply make it a dps platform with it's fast set up time. I think that would have actually worked and made it completely different from the MG42 which is to control the enemy. Now it's basically just a really really poor version of the MG42 that sets up fast.

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# 12Noscul Aug 25 2013, 18:14 PM
The Maxim looks like it tried to be an improvement over the American .30cal as it was made more to support attacks instead of defending an area which is marked by it's (supposed) greater damage and faster repack time but a smaller arc to focus the damage. In addition to it's damage being brought back up with extra suppresion I think it's arc could be slightly bigger so when it sets up to support an attack squads can't run out of it.

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# 13Dullahan Aug 25 2013, 22:56 PM
imo I'd rather have the arc narrowed and the old damage back.

EDIT:

Played a game where my maxim in a building was firing on an MG42 for a good solid minute or two while it was just sitting around and the maxim couldn't kill it. What aj oke.

This post has been edited by Dullahan: Aug 26 2013, 00:12 AM

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# 14Katitof Aug 26 2013, 10:30 AM
QUOTE(Dullahan @ Aug 25 2013, 23:56 PM) *

imo I'd rather have the arc narrowed and the old damage back.

EDIT:

Played a game where my maxim in a building was firing on an MG42 for a good solid minute or two while it was just sitting around and the maxim couldn't kill it. What aj oke.

And if any unit is in yellow cover, Maxim will never pin it.

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# 15GGTheMachine Aug 28 2013, 12:24 PM
Not only is the Maxim awful, it's also countered by Either Rifle Grenade or Bundles Grenades from a Grenadier or Panzer Gren squad walking through the firing up of the maxim right up to it and grenading on it's face, often then forcing the retreat, despite the squad walking directly through the tiny firing arc.

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# 16vaz Aug 28 2013, 20:40 PM
force retreat? more like annihilate crew

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# 17Nuclear Arbitor Aug 29 2013, 00:08 AM
i really don't get your complain about rifle grenades. is this since the recent patch or do i just have shit luck with them or something? i find that it requires at least two to actually force off a maxim, baring running around trying to shoot it a bunch.

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# 18vaz Aug 29 2013, 04:11 AM
You must have shit luck. What I see most often is about 2 or 3 squads run straight at it and get fired on from the mouth of the cone all the way to around the 2/3 mark, then grenade goes out, usually the maxim crew is then dead from the damage it took from the approach, followed by the grenade. Sometimes there is 1 guy left and the time it takes him to man the gun and check his email on smart phone, the target squads have fully recovered and drop him in a couple of shots. It's real easy, anyone can do it. Sometimes support doesn't even matter too, because of how fast it all happens.

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# 19Dullahan Aug 29 2013, 04:34 AM
QUOTE(Nuclear Arbitor @ Aug 28 2013, 17:08 PM) *

i really don't get your complain about rifle grenades. is this since the recent patch or do i just have shit luck with them or something? i find that it requires at least two to actually force off a maxim, baring running around trying to shoot it a bunch.


A rifle grenade usually kills 2-3 guys on a maxim and takes off 1/2 their hp. It's pretty significant, but not likely to wipe them out entirely.

It's more just that the Maxim doesn't do any damage and takes forever to suppress, so grenadiers don't have to worry about the risk/reward of a rifle grenade anymore and can pretty much just fire it off carefree.

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# 20Nuclear Arbitor Aug 29 2013, 05:26 AM
is this since the changes in the most recent patch though or has it been around before that? i haven't actually played since that patch because i moved.

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