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Is there any point in building a Stug III vs a PIV?

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# 1Superjew Oct 10 2013, 05:32 AM
The game makers really need to do something about the StuG

It is simply NOT cost effective at the moment.

In reality the Stug III and for that matter the Stug IV was a cost effective way of Nazi Germany having mobile AT Assault Gun weaponry at a low cost when compared to tanks with a much more complex turret system.

With all the hype surrounding the feared Tiger Tank, as an Allied WWII tank crew you were much more likely to be killed by a well placed Stug III or IV than ever a Tiger Tank.

I don't know the cost and numbers off the top of my head, usually if I wanna find a match I have to play Russians instead of Germans, but it is clearly not cost effective to go with a STUG for a minor decrease compared to a Panzer IV.

The Stug is more of a specialty unit, I've never built one. Its missing a coaxial and hull machine gun, yet costs just a smidge less than a Panzer IV.

Its basically a useless unit at the moment. I don't even know the hit points on it at the moment.

Seriously this unit needs either a massive buff, like a unit that can compete with an SU85 in the AT role, or it needs a serious cost reduction, I lean towards cost reduction.

But really at the minimum, I think its Popcap should be lowered from 10, to like 9 or 8. There has to be SOMETHING going for it to actually make it be considered over a PIV at the moment.

I loved the Stug in COH1, its popcap was 4 so you could spam them hard. With a popcap of 10, theres virtually no point in making them.

This post has been edited by Superjew: Oct 10 2013, 05:43 AM

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# 2Nuclear Arbitor Oct 10 2013, 05:50 AM
they're a cheap counter to tanks and work well defensively. if the nerf to unit size didn't make any significant changes then they're in an ok spot at the moment.

the shit tank at the moment is still the brummbar, which either needs a large cost reduction or a large buff.

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# 3Dullahan Oct 10 2013, 06:01 AM
Brummbarr performs alright, but like most late game tanks is WAY overpriced.

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# 4Nuclear Arbitor Oct 10 2013, 09:19 AM
a large part of the issue is when it becomes available. mines ruin it and any av on treads bigger than a 34/76 will have no problems destroying it. it certainly effective against infantry, and can face tank a zis easily but ostwinds are more flexible and have much better maneuverability, not to mention they don't spend forever getting repaired.

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# 5Katitof Oct 10 2013, 10:05 AM
StuG handles KV-1 and 8 better then P4.

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# 6Interloper Oct 10 2013, 12:42 PM
QUOTE(Nuclear Arbitor @ Oct 9 2013, 22:50 PM) *

they're a cheap counter to tanks and work well defensively. if the nerf to unit size didn't make any significant changes then they're in an ok spot at the moment.

the shit tank at the moment is still the brummbar, which either needs a large cost reduction or a large buff.



QUOTE(Dullahan @ Oct 9 2013, 23:01 PM) *

Brummbarr performs alright, but like most late game tanks is WAY overpriced.


A Brum costs an arm and a leg. I find it does it job quiet well, it can stand in the face of an AT gun and Kill it, and it can take a few shots from an SU85 in the front and retreat back to safety. It works well when you got something providing AT (like 2 PAKs) over watch. Had a match with a Brum and Flame HT together and that was ridiculously funny to watch shocks, and conscripts get wiped out.

The Stug really does need some love, but with like all T3 Units they are butter once an IS2 or ISU152 hits the field. Heh I think and IS2 two shots a Stug in the face. I miss the 8% increased penetration perk the Stug had back before they reduced it to like 3% or something.

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# 7TNrg Oct 10 2013, 16:48 PM
QUOTE(Nuclear Arbitor @ Oct 10 2013, 08:50 AM) *

they're a cheap counter to tanks and work well defensively.


They will work well defensively, yes. But I wouldn't consider it being a real counter against a T-34 since a T-34 can circle around a StuG easily. Map dependant though, on tight maps with narrow areas like Kholodny it can be viable since it's not getting so easily circled around.

Usually I only build StuGs when I'm way ahead and because it's a cool tank. If I'm not ahead I will get a Pz IV.

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# 8TNrg Oct 10 2013, 16:49 PM
QUOTE(Interloper @ Oct 10 2013, 15:42 PM) *

I miss the 8% increased penetration perk the Stug had back before they reduced it to like 3% or something.


Yeah, I don't see any use for those bulletins like 2% cooldown reduction, 3% increased penetration etc.. they just don't make a difference.

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# 9Funky Ducky Oct 10 2013, 18:32 PM
Generally, stugs aren't the best choice. They have better pen than the PIV, same frontal armor, and less armor. I like using them when I just need at for a cheap price to hold off for an elefant or tiger. They do need a buff though.

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# 10Nuclear Arbitor Oct 10 2013, 23:40 PM
QUOTE(TNrg @ Oct 10 2013, 07:48 AM) *

They will work well defensively, yes. But I wouldn't consider it being a real counter against a T-34 since a T-34 can circle around a StuG easily. Map dependant though, on tight maps with narrow areas like Kholodny it can be viable since it's not getting so easily circled around.

Usually I only build StuGs when I'm way ahead and because it's a cool tank. If I'm not ahead I will get a Pz IV.

if your stug was flanked it was almost certainly to far forward. keep stugs in the back unless they have something to shoot at.

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# 11TNrg Oct 11 2013, 14:10 PM
QUOTE(Nuclear Arbitor @ Oct 11 2013, 02:40 AM) *

if your stug was flanked it was almost certainly to far forward. keep stugs in the back unless they have something to shoot at.


You're right. But that's why I don't prefer StuGs at all. It's a bit of waste to spend 85 fuel to a unit that just stays back and hangs around.

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# 12Katitof Oct 11 2013, 16:22 PM
QUOTE(TNrg @ Oct 11 2013, 15:10 PM) *

You're right. But that's why I don't prefer StuGs at all. It's a bit of waste to spend 85 fuel to a unit that just stays back and hangs around.

Soviets spend 115 for that.
StuG is a nice deterrent to aggressive T3 play and since T3 is more often seen now because of largely nerfed SU-85 and bit buffed 34/76.

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# 13Nuclear Arbitor Oct 12 2013, 03:49 AM
QUOTE(TNrg @ Oct 11 2013, 05:10 AM) *

You're right. But that's why I don't prefer StuGs at all. It's a bit of waste to spend 85 fuel to a unit that just stays back and hangs around.

yeah. i only get stugs reactively because of that. they're shit against infantry but they can counter garrisons given long enough and are good against tanks. you can take on isu-152s and is-2 with them if you're careful and have good placement.

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# 14TNrg Oct 12 2013, 11:26 AM
QUOTE(Nuclear Arbitor @ Oct 12 2013, 06:49 AM) *

yeah. i only get stugs reactively because of that. they're shit against infantry but they can counter garrisons given long enough and are good against tanks. you can take on isu-152s and is-2 with them if you're careful and have good placement.


Ehh, the ISU-152's range is like 3x of the StuG's and 2-shots a StuG. IS-2 is not so OP but it still easily feeds on StuGs and it has a rotating turret.

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# 15Funky Ducky Oct 12 2013, 17:56 PM
You're not supposed to directly challenge units such as the IS-2 or ISU-152 with stugs. You engage them with the likes of a Panther or Tiger to soak damage and then let the stug deal the damage in the back.

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# 16Nuclear Arbitor Oct 12 2013, 21:21 PM
you have to bait them forward and keep the stug behind a bush. the is-2 has a really slow turret rate and the isu doesn't have a turret at all. you're probably not going to kill the thing but you can certainly damage it. this is map dependent though. maps like steppes are going to be really hard to pull something like that off. the other important thing stun shot. you'll get another one or two shots off while they're stunned or it can be used to back the stug out.

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# 17Funky Ducky Oct 12 2013, 21:33 PM
Plus, the heat round ability will stun allowing you to flank and deal damage.

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# 18Interloper Oct 15 2013, 15:12 PM
Stug's Range needs to be just a far as the SU85.

Just played the game where I got the jump on an vanilla SU85 that was solo shooting my my Grens giving the vanilla stug LOS and the SU85 manage to kill my Stug as it reversed out of there after taking 2 SU85 shots was in the fog of war, it was even on a flat road with no arty pot holes. The same SU85 once again picked off another Stug that had the jump on it again when I got the first shot off. I finally got it with my third stug, but I was so far behind on fuel and manpower I was overrun by infantry and other SU85s......

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# 19Nuclear Arbitor Oct 15 2013, 18:37 PM
if he is spamming 85s you need to transition into t4. you can get werfers if he has lots of infantry and is giving you infantry based at weapons a problem since their cheap but in general you want Vs. you have to be very defensive with stugs against 85s, especially without vet, and generally fight him at least 2:1. the biggest issue is that it's not cost effective though; stugs are massively out ranged by 85s and they aren't enough cheaper to make them worthwhile.

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# 20Katitof Oct 15 2013, 19:03 PM
QUOTE(Interloper @ Oct 15 2013, 16:12 PM) *

Stug's Range needs to be just a far as the SU85.

Just played the game where I got the jump on an vanilla SU85 that was solo shooting my my Grens giving the vanilla stug LOS and the SU85 manage to kill my Stug as it reversed out of there after taking 2 SU85 shots was in the fog of war, it was even on a flat road with no arty pot holes. The same SU85 once again picked off another Stug that had the jump on it again when I got the first shot off. I finally got it with my third stug, but I was so far behind on fuel and manpower I was overrun by infantry and other SU85s......

Its a tank destroyer.
Not tank destroyer destroyer.
SU got 10 more range then best german tank.
StuG got 10 more range then best german tank.
Moreover StuG can outrange SU if you use hull down or whatever the ability name is.

And you're not supposed to go against tank destroyer with a weaker tank destroyer. Its not a "jump on him" if you charged it upfront.

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