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Rise of the Witch King

DJ Premier | Arongorn, Glucagon, Fierybull

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# 1MauH˙R Dec 1 2017, 03:17 AM
This is your personal mentoring topic. Use it as needed.
You can ask general mentoring questions in the General Q/A thread.
If you encounter problems with someone on your team or for any other queries, please PM me.

If you wish to extend your mentoring session beyond Jan 31st, you should indicate this with a post in this topic as the end of the mentoring period approaches.

Note: You are expected to be active in this topic throughout the mentoring period (until Jan 31st). Please make good use of this program, it's a great opportunity for everyone to have some fun and give the RotWK competitive community a boost.


Good luck & have fun guys!


Posts: 3,795

Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 2fierybull Dec 1 2017, 12:10 PM
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Posts: 43


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# 3Arongorn Dec 1 2017, 13:21 PM

Allright let's get this started.

I picked FoL for my main focus. I struggle in early game with these factions, as with spammy factions i can make a more of an aggressive start. Also i feel like losing units early-game is less punished for FoD since the spam is cheap. I tend to get pushed to my base with FoL fairly quick and then it's a camp-fest untill i die (or get big powers to push out again).

So DJ, how do you see this programme in work?


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Posts: 54

Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 4DJ_Premier Dec 1 2017, 17:02 PM
OK boyzzzz lets do this.

Firstly, Glucagon add me on GR, my id is 8418079, it might be a good idea to add fiery and aron as well, playing against each other will be useful at some points.

Everyone please start by choosing a specific faction, when we come to the proper training you will play these factions. Based on what you were talking about aron i assume you wanna start with either MotW or Elves?

QUOTE(Arongorn @ Dec 1 2017, 13:21 PM) *
So DJ, how do you see this programme in work?

Preferably we do a bunch of stuff so as to keep ourselves engaged, the program is on for 2 months so we don't wanna get burnt out or let this thread die. Post as many replays as you want or just ask questions in general. 1v1 replays will be most helpful to you but 2v2 is fine also. Anything bigger like 4v4's are ok if you have specific questions. I don't really mind what factions the replays are with but try and stick to the theme you chose (FoL or FoD), if it's the faction you picked to start with, even better.

This post has been edited by DJ_Premier: Dec 1 2017, 17:15 PM

Posts: 422

Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 5fierybull Dec 1 2017, 17:55 PM
I'll start with Mordor

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# 6Glucagon Dec 1 2017, 20:31 PM
Hi,

Sorry to answer late I work this week end.
I haven't played often online so I think I have a lot to learn. I prefer to start with Angmar

Posts: 12

Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 7Arongorn Dec 1 2017, 23:54 PM
QUOTE(DJ_Premier @ Dec 1 2017, 18:02 PM) *


Based on what you were talking about aron i assume you wanna start with either MotW or Elves?



Yea MotW for a start, could try some elf if we get to that point

Posts: 54

Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 8Arongorn Dec 5 2017, 07:00 AM
Well DJ, got 2 replays for you to look at. Both vs FoD, and I fear i got rekt hard. Ofc losing to the best player in rotwk history is no shame, but still


Attached File(s)
Attached File liam_1.BfME2Replay
Size: 61.39k
Number of downloads: 11
Player Name Side Team
liam666 0
Arongorn* 0
Attached File Liam_2.BfME2Replay
Size: 102.98k
Number of downloads: 13
Player Name Side Team
Arongorn* 0
liam666 0

Posts: 54

Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 9DJ_Premier Dec 5 2017, 17:39 PM
QUOTE(Glucagon @ Dec 1 2017, 20:31 PM) *

Hi,

Sorry to answer late I work this week end.
I haven't played often online so I think I have a lot to learn. I prefer to start with Angmar

Alright no problem, it's completely up to you when and how much you play. If you can join this discord group, https://discord.gg/YhSX95f that will be great. It is the general 2.02 group but there's a channel there for mentoring stuff, probably the easiest way to arrange times to play as i check it more often then these forums.

Posts: 422

Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 10fierybull Dec 5 2017, 18:22 PM
QUOTE(Arongorn @ Dec 5 2017, 07:00 AM) *

Well DJ, got 2 replays for you to look at. Both vs FoD, and I fear i got rekt hard. Ofc losing to the best player in rotwk history is no shame, but still


Awwh now they can't be wubbed.Attached Image

Posts: 43


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# 11DJ_Premier Dec 5 2017, 18:53 PM
QUOTE(Arongorn @ Dec 5 2017, 07:00 AM) *

Well DJ, got 2 replays for you to look at. Both vs FoD, and I fear i got rekt hard. Ofc losing to the best player in rotwk history is no shame, but still

Game 1 -
OK well you lost this simply from poor decision making, which is slightly more encouraging as it is an easier fix. You did rax and range on 3 farms which is fine, being safe in this MU is best. With the build however it's all about making a strong early push, most common time to go for it is after the second archer battalion with RC is essential, it's important to realise that it gets exponentially harder for gobs to stop your push with the more units you have. Gobs will need to defend with everything he has, would've been even harder for Liam cos he did spider pit start (you even spied it), this basically means you can do the damage you need, build your economy behind it and move into a more comfortable mid game. Splitting and pushing the way you did just wont work, as im sure you saw, gobs can simply deal with each part of your army one at a time with little trouble. Anyway after that you should aim for cav at some point as you will never beat gobs without them, it's all about controlling and balancing your eco expansions and tech ups. If you wanna do rather fast heroes the choice is either Theoden or Eomer, but i would still recommend cav before either.

Game 2-
Not much to say about this one, you did same build so it shares a lot of points i said above, there's a few things that would've helped like getting that first SoG into shieldwall before the trample, it simply buys you more time, you were slightly slow on defending those corsairs too and unfortunately your two archers got in melee combat with them and were pretty much killed. He got slightly lucky with a BS trample with his second lancers which is just unlucky for you. I will say again that cav is pretty essential here at some point so aim for that, with that mordor composition it will be tricky to defend well with infantry/archer mixes. I did see you throw up a stables but at that point your economy was pretty much dead and you lost more soon after.

Posts: 422

Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 12Arongorn Dec 5 2017, 20:07 PM
@DJ thanks for the reviewing.

Would you say that against more spammy factions (gobs,mordor,ang, isen when going wilds) it's recommended to push with a bigger army, while facing individually stronger factions (dwarf,elf,isen when uruks) it's recommended to split and flank?

Posts: 54

Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 13Glucagon Dec 5 2017, 22:03 PM
QUOTE(DJ_Premier @ Dec 5 2017, 17:39 PM) *

Alright no problem, it's completely up to you when and how much you play. If you can join this discord group, https://discord.gg/YhSX95f that will be great. It is the general 2.02 group but there's a channel there for mentoring stuff, probably the easiest way to arrange times to play as i check it more often then these forums.



It's done, my Discord ID : Skady#9729

Posts: 12

Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 14Glucagon Dec 5 2017, 22:46 PM
One of my first online game. I played as Angmar but I don't know if I played well, because I'm mew in GR I hope it will not be too boring, I would like to know your opinion about my gameplay, what was good or not.
Attached File Buckland_2v2.BfME2Replay
Size: 106.15k
Number of downloads: 9
Player Name Side Team
Gratbot 1
LukeATB 2
andre 2
Skady* 1

Posts: 12

Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 15DJ_Premier Dec 7 2017, 20:24 PM
QUOTE(Glucagon @ Dec 5 2017, 22:46 PM) *

One of my first online game. I played as Angmar but I don't know if I played well, because I'm mew in GR I hope it will not be too boring, I would like to know your opinion about my gameplay, what was good or not.
Attached File Buckland_2v2.BfME2Replay
Size: 106.15k
Number of downloads: 9
Player Name Side Team
Gratbot 1
LukeATB 2
andre 2
Skady* 1



Gotta say that for your first online game this was mighty impressive, well played! Your macro was good, very little cash floating etc. Your choices were fine, fast rangers vs elves is good, i would say a hero at some point would help, Hwaldar if you are relying on thralls heavily or Morgomir is good for debuffing those strong elven units. Hard to say where you can improve because your opponent played pretty bad but a few little things i will comment on. Firstly your build was slightly strange, i don't think it's bad or anything but perhaps the 2nd HotKm after the Troll and Wolf Den is a little cleaner, the earlier you can have those wolf riders the stronger they are (here is a full and extensive list of Angmar Builds). You did a good double harass at the start but after that you threw a few units away such as those dire wolves and wolf riders and i think 1 gundabad+ 1 axe. As you can probably see wolf riders are not the strongest cavalry so its best not to engage large clumps of units with just one battalion even if it is mostly archers/swords, same with dire wolves, try and use them as a support unit to harass and then synergise them with your infantry armies for the best results. Angmar can very easily match elves army to army so if you get as good of a start as you did in this match you don't need to force more harassment if he's easily there to defend, you can sit back a bit and use your superior eco to build a stronger army then him simply roll over him (especially relevant in small narrow maps like Buckland). This may be a play style thing though as some people get away with blind aggression all game tongue.gif. Anyway upload some more smaller games (1v1, 2v2) and hopefully i can help a bit more.

One thing i forgot to mention is that fellwind as a starting power is rarely ever good, WC is a lot better.

This post has been edited by DJ_Premier: Dec 7 2017, 20:35 PM

Posts: 422

Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 16DJ_Premier Dec 7 2017, 20:33 PM
QUOTE(Arongorn @ Dec 5 2017, 20:07 PM) *

Would you say that against more spammy factions (gobs,mordor,ang, isen when going wilds) it's recommended to push with a bigger army, while facing individually stronger factions (dwarf,elf,isen when uruks) it's recommended to split and flank?

Hard to say, but i think as a general rule, yes, but it's mostly to do with this build. If you do a double rax or rax, stables it's more important to get more eco damage done and therefore harassing from multiple sides is important. This build simply allows you to get a powerful composition very early so you want to engage your opponent and force him to make a poor trade. This usually means running towards his pb's and he has no choice but to defend.

This post has been edited by DJ_Premier: Dec 7 2017, 20:36 PM

Posts: 422

Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 17Glucagon Dec 7 2017, 21:13 PM
QUOTE(DJ_Premier @ Dec 7 2017, 20:24 PM) *

Gotta say that for your first online game this was mighty impressive, well played! Your macro was good, very little cash floating etc. Your choices were fine, fast rangers vs elves is good, i would say a hero at some point would help, Hwaldar if you are relying on thralls heavily or Morgomir is good for debuffing those strong elven units. Hard to say where you can improve because your opponent played pretty bad but a few little things i will comment on. Firstly your build was slightly strange, i don't think it's bad or anything but perhaps the 2nd HotKm after the Troll and Wolf Den is a little cleaner, the earlier you can have those wolf riders the stronger they are (here is a full and extensive list of Angmar Builds). You did a good double harass at the start but after that you threw a few units away such as those dire wolves and wolf riders and i think 1 gundabad+ 1 axe. As you can probably see wolf riders are not the strongest cavalry so its best not to engage large clumps of units with just one battalion even if it is mostly archers/swords, same with dire wolves, try and use them as a support unit to harass and then synergise them with your infantry armies for the best results. Angmar can very easily match elves army to army so if you get as good of a start as you did in this match you don't need to force more harassment if he's easily there to defend, you can sit back a bit and use your superior eco to build a stronger army then him simply roll over him (especially relevant in small narrow maps like Buckland). This may be a play style thing though as some people get away with blind aggression all game tongue.gif. Anyway upload some more smaller games (1v1, 2v2) and hopefully i can help a bit more.

One thing i forgot to mention is that fellwind as a starting power is rarely ever good, WC is a lot better.

My first purpose was to create drak ranger as soon as possible. I built the 2nd HotKM before the wolf den because thrall master are cheaper then wolf and I was able to harass my oppenent with my orcs. By seeing my oppenent doing "nothing" I supposed he was looking for Legolas or Thranduil so I wanted to destroy his mallorn for reduce his CP and avoid him to make heroes. I admit wolf riders aren't the best cav and unfortunately I have difficulties to cav well. Then when I saw my ally was in bad shape I preferred focus on catapult and upgrade trolls to destroy elves, I think a few upgrade units can be more usefull than a hero (ofc I was lookinf for Morgomir first). Like you I was right to suppose my first oppenent wasn't really good, I know with someone else it would have been more difficult. I don't know with Angmar (and other factions) if it's better to be aggressiv and do not stop attacking or focus on the money to build a strong army.

Posts: 12

Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 18Glucagon Dec 8 2017, 22:01 PM
An other replay, but this one I pitifully failed. I guess I maybe not be agressiv enought to take on my oppenent. I don't know if it's only MotW but against them I'm helpless.


Attached File(s)
Attached File 1v1_Isen.BfME2Replay
Size: 169.34k
Number of downloads: 8
Player Name Side Team
JLS 0
Skady* 0

Posts: 12

Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 19Glucagon Dec 9 2017, 22:30 PM
I know I chose FoD for the mentoring program but because I lack exp in online games, like the first replay I posted I'd like to know your opinion.


Attached File(s)
Attached File 2v2_Ost_in.BfME2Replay
Size: 141.35k
Number of downloads: 6
Player Name Side Team
TheSmasher 1
Animal 2
Skady* 1
VVladiss 2

Posts: 12

Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 20DJ_Premier Dec 13 2017, 18:08 PM
QUOTE(Glucagon @ Dec 8 2017, 22:01 PM) *

An other replay, but this one I pitifully failed. I guess I maybe not be agressiv enought to take on my oppenent. I don't know if it's only MotW but against them I'm helpless.

Not an easy MU for newer players. I noticed your starting farms were +25,+24,+17, do you know the optimal farm placing? to get 25,25,25 you need 3 at 97% in a triangle around the fort although i assume you know this as i've seen you use it before. If you wanted 3 in fort range you can do that. Your build order was not good, with gobs you can do more PB's on less tunnels, see this guide for gob BO's. As you can see you need at least 4 PB's before your 5th tunnel in pretty much any build, you had only 2 in this game so you didn't have enough troops to defend his early push. After your 2nd/3rd/4th cave you will need a spider pit for spiderlings which i saw you do, spiderlings/riders help deal with motw cavalry in early-mid game, if he amasses a large cav force, which is common here, heroes and fire drakes are good in late game. Half troll marauders are not really effective cav counters unfortunately due to their slow speed and the fact they cant be trampled. After the poor start the rest of the game was a slow death, you will need to do more eco dmg early on if you want to win this MU, so in that sense i would say yes you do need to be more aggressive, but it needs to be good aggression, therefore building a forward tunnel or two closer to his base and attacking from multiple sides at the same time is important. Try and play a bit more timed and force your opponent to split his defense. Apart from that i can't say much, a few small things like you waited until 15pp to choose your 10 power and also spiderling summon is not very good vs troops almost always better to kill your opponents farms with it, also scavenger is very strong so get that whenever you can. Overall i think your macro is decent we just need to work on your micro/not wasting units etc, we can do some 1 on 1 sessions in the coming days if you are free?

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Game: Rise of the Witch King


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