Explore GameReplays...

Battle for Middle Earth 2

1.09 and dwarven heroes

Reply to this topic Start new topic
# 1StrayHeart Jun 27 2018, 21:02 PM
Hi.

Please watch these two games. Can someone tell me how you counter dwarven heroes or consider starting a discussion wether they're op on 1.09. I mean their health and armor.

Thank you.


Attached File(s)
Attached File 2v2_LordArionX_Dwrv__OhReaLLy_Gob__vs_SamweisGam_Dwrv___Storm_Cro_Dwrv__oos_loss_probably.bfme2replay
Size: 228.52k
Number of downloads: 71
Player Name Side Team
LordArionX 1
_Storm_Cro 4
SamweisGam 4
OhReaLLy* 1
Attached File 2v2_LordArionX_Mor__OhReaLLy_Gob__vs__Storm_Cro_Dwrv__SamweisGam_Dwrv___loss_.bfme2replay
Size: 207.13k
Number of downloads: 69
Player Name Side Team
LordArionX 1
_Storm_Cro 2
OhReaLLy* 1
SamweisGam 2

Posts: 1,423

Game: Rise of the Witch King


+
# 2SilverBane Jun 27 2018, 21:54 PM
You counter dwarf heros by cutting their mineshaft retreat and abusing their slow speed... although i gotta say men have a hard time against gimli.

Posts: 777

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2


+
# 3Storm Crow Jun 27 2018, 22:03 PM
lel

Posts: 130

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2


+
# 4StrayHeart Jun 27 2018, 22:05 PM
QUOTE(SilverBane @ Jun 27 2018, 22:54 PM) *

You counter dwarf heros by cutting their mineshaft retreat and abusing their slow speed... although i gotta say men have a hard time against gimli.

I was goblins actly. If you cut their mineshaft escape they still hide behind ally army. Also Gimli and Gloin both have skill to clear hunting enemy's forces.

I forgot its pretty hilarious how fast Gloin increases in level. I did not pay attention if Arion fed him with not selling farms on time, but this happened to me plenty times.

Posts: 1,423

Game: Rise of the Witch King


+
# 5SilverBane Jun 27 2018, 22:07 PM
Goblins have like the easiest time from all factions to deal with dwarf heroes... Poison rapes heroes, and you have 2 stinger abilities... guaranteed kill. Not even saying how fast marauders chop through gimli and dain, and gob warriors thru gloin.

Posts: 777

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2


+
# 6Mr.SmOKing Jun 27 2018, 22:07 PM
delete 1.09, install 2.02 - no probs lol
And for me many 1.09 heroes OP like Gimli, Elrond.

Posts: 907

Clan: PIRATES

Game: Rise of the Witch King


+
# 7StrayHeart Jun 27 2018, 22:10 PM
QUOTE(SilverBane @ Jun 27 2018, 23:07 PM) *

Goblins have like the easiest time from all factions to deal with dwarf heroes... Poison rapes heroes, and you have 2 stinger abilities... guaranteed kill. Not even saying how fast marauders chop through gimli and dain, and gob warriors thru gloin.

I tried exactly everything you mentioned xd watch replays. You do remember they respawn at low cost? Plus 2 heals in these games. Op.

Yes stinger abilities are strong, but poison - no. I tried it. Hence why I went 4 gob caves so early.

This post has been edited by StrayHeart: Jun 27 2018, 22:14 PM

Posts: 1,423

Game: Rise of the Witch King


+
# 8Storm Crow Jun 27 2018, 22:11 PM
QUOTE(StrayHeart @ Jun 27 2018, 22:05 PM) *

I was goblins actly. If you cut their mineshaft escape they still hide behind ally army. Also Gimli and Gloin both have skill to clear hunting enemy's forces.

I forgot its pretty hilarious how fast Gloin increases in level. I did not pay attention if Arion fed him with not selling farms on time, but this happened to me plenty times.

u are right when u attacked my ally i was simply establishing mines in my base and when u attacked me i kept building mines in my ally's base also the tunnel system makes our lives easier to protect mines and as well the double heal is thruly OP second game was strategical to heroes in my opinion but what blown my mind is that a lvl 8 gloin got lvl 9 immediately by killing a single farm and the frustretion with that gimli.....

Posts: 130

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2


+
# 9StrayHeart Jun 27 2018, 22:15 PM
QUOTE(Storm Crow @ Jun 27 2018, 23:11 PM) *

u are right when u attacked my ally i was simply establishing mines in my base and when u attacked me i kept building mines in my ally's base also the tunnel system makes our lives easier to protect mines and as well the double heal is thruly OP second game was strategical to heroes in my opinion but what blown my mind is that a lvl 8 gloin got lvl 9 immediately by killing a single farm and the frustretion with that gimli.....

+1

Posts: 1,423

Game: Rise of the Witch King


+
# 10SilverBane Jun 27 2018, 22:24 PM
QUOTE(StrayHeart @ Jun 28 2018, 01:10 AM) *

I tried exactly everything you mentioned xd watch replays. You do remember they respawn at low cost and ressurection is quite cheap? Plus 2 heals in these games. Op.

I do not have time to watch now, but I can imagine the scenario you're describing. Well, the problem is that you let them develop such a strong economy to get all the heroes out in the first place. Still, from all, goblins have the easiest time killing dwarven heroes. its all about map awareness, striking at his base with 1-2 units to hurt eco and PB, and proper micro during combat. even with 2 heals a crippled gimli under marauders with war chant or blades will die in seconds. seriously its not even close for other factions about how easy they kill gimli compared to goblins. try to keep your bats alive by trampling enemy archers/axes so that ur infantry is not ripped by his, and then the heroes are like butter for goblins! a level 10 gloin is a different story but you shouldn't get there in the first place. slam doesnt even kill marauders in proper stance! same for leap.
Goblins have absolutely no trouble killing dwarf heroes if you're not outclassed by his economy and development (in which case every faction loses to the other one). I did not watch replay but i am assuming you had 3 caves 2 fissures and 1 spider pit spamming? keep in mind priority vs dwarves is blades not drogoth, only get drogoth if you feel you have a substantial advantage over him. Little things like casting bats before watcher can make huge differences... outside early game and early late-game (when gimli first hits the field) goblins have no trouble with dwarves if played properly... if you buy your heroes early gimli wont be a problem at all in early-lategame. There's lots of replays that prove goblins rape dwarves if they survive the initial guardian rush.

This post has been edited by SilverBane: Jun 27 2018, 22:30 PM

Posts: 777

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2


+
# 11SeñorEcthelion Jun 28 2018, 00:35 AM
I don't even consider the 3 dwarf heros a issue to goblins. There's always Bats that nulifies most of their leadership, Watcher that wipes any dwarf army and knockbacks heros allowing a rape while they are in floor, spider riders that crush everything while goblins poison units in floor, and finaly, Drogoth.

But im gonna watch replay, let's see.


Posts: 5,132

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2


+
# 12SN0WBL4CK Jun 28 2018, 01:00 AM
This is situational. Also a 2v2. In 2v2 a lot of things can seem op. You are saying the hero is hiding behind his ally army. But where is your ally army? It has nothing to do with balance it has to do with being outnumbered. Ofc you can not kill dwarf heroes if his ally supports him vs you alone.

Dwarven heroes are actually the only thing that keeps dwarf in the game after midgame. They are not at all op. As silverbane said poison blades on gobs absolutely destroy heroes very fast. Sure you need to micro and not fight against them when they are surrounded by guardians. But if they were any weaker vs goblins they would be underpowered as hell.

Posts: 603

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2 1.06


+
# 13SeñorEcthelion Jun 28 2018, 01:09 AM
Watched game in udun 2. You were doing fine except for fighting gimli with goblins and not pikes.
You were a 1.06 player, you know very well that gimli and dain dont like pikes, while gloin don't like swords. In the hill of udun it seems that took you a while to recognise somethin you already knew. You tried cavalry ranged vs gimli instead of directly clump these SR on gimli. In this game marauders had zero purpose, all they did was die vs phalanxs.

During game in udun 1 i am feeling a bit of cancer regard the missing chances of killing easily these dwarf heros. They suck by their own. Omg, i am seeing marauder pikes vs gloin! Why did you retaliate giants from gloin? just punch him and send 2 gobs to kill him in ground!!!!!! Arion is playing like if he's doing a testing game to level up dwarf heros to observe their skills.


I can see this game was frustrating for you two, but it's just a matter of hero counter unknowledge (by not saying ignorance).
All you need is to know is
*2-3 pikes clumped with warchant is enough to kill dain/gimli in 2-3 hits.
*4-5 clumped goblins over lone gloin means kill in few seconds.
*Use porcurpine to survive Leap.
*Retaliate goblins once poison was used and heros were healed. No need to lose them and feed for absolutely nothing. Too many units suicided for literaly 0 reward. Game seemed to have been played with a totally negative and surrendered mood.
*Abuse spider riders a bit more, remember to crush by flanking (which one-hits guardians). Use def stance to crush if pikes are near. Spider riders damage is pretty good vs any kind of heros, but Gloin and Gimli have splash-damage abilities. What does this mean? Separate these heros from the armies, get them knockbacked and rape in floor just like in the movie Irreversible.
*Troll micro: when you retaliate your troll because he's being aimed by a strong army, your goblin army should push under bats debuff. When the enemy army updates and start attacking your army, advance the troll again. Enemy will end up running and you can keep a position doing this for variuos minutes. Also there shouldn't be need to follow them and end up lossing everything in enemy territory.
*Remember gimli leadership gives a lot of armor, use debuff before watcher.
*Remember watcher knockbacks heros as i said above. You don't really need to use it ABOVE heros. Use a bit north if you want them knockbacked to south, and viceversa. Watcher arms also knockback, which is also in your favor. WHEN YOU USE WATCHER AGAINST HEROS, YOU SHOULD HAVE A ARMY PREPARED TO HIT THE HEROS IN THE GROUND.
*If you are onhost, try to delete the structures gloin Shake foundations is about to take down. Find the exact moment once ability is used, then you would be avoiding gloin to get exp and you get ur 50% resources bak. I saw Arion do this during the game, but not you.

Resume: this aint rotwk, try to conserv units. Care about your units a bit, give them love. Specially if you are playing without heros.


Posts: 5,132

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2


+
# 14Storm Crow Jun 28 2018, 13:01 PM
QUOTE(SeñorEcthelion @ Jun 28 2018, 01:09 AM) *

Watched game in udun 2. You were doing fine except for fighting gimli with goblins and not pikes.
You were a 1.06 player, you know very well that gimli and dain dont like pikes, while gloin don't like swords. In the hill of udun it seems that took you a while to recognise somethin you already knew. You tried cavalry ranged vs gimli instead of directly clump these SR on gimli. In this game marauders had zero purpose, all they did was die vs phalanxs.

During game in udun 1 i am feeling a bit of cancer regard the missing chances of killing easily these dwarf heros. They suck by their own. Omg, i am seeing marauder pikes vs gloin! Why did you retaliate giants from gloin? just punch him and send 2 gobs to kill him in ground!!!!!! Arion is playing like if he's doing a testing game to level up dwarf heros to observe their skills.
I can see this game was frustrating for you two, but it's just a matter of hero counter unknowledge (by not saying ignorance).
All you need is to know is
*2-3 pikes clumped with warchant is enough to kill dain/gimli in 2-3 hits.
*4-5 clumped goblins over lone gloin means kill in few seconds.
*Use porcurpine to survive Leap.
*Retaliate goblins once poison was used and heros were healed. No need to lose them and feed for absolutely nothing. Too many units suicided for literaly 0 reward. Game seemed to have been played with a totally negative and surrendered mood.
*Abuse spider riders a bit more, remember to crush by flanking (which one-hits guardians). Use def stance to crush if pikes are near. Spider riders damage is pretty good vs any kind of heros, but Gloin and Gimli have splash-damage abilities. What does this mean? Separate these heros from the armies, get them knockbacked and rape in floor just like in the movie Irreversible.
*Troll micro: when you retaliate your troll because he's being aimed by a strong army, your goblin army should push under bats debuff. When the enemy army updates and start attacking your army, advance the troll again. Enemy will end up running and you can keep a position doing this for variuos minutes. Also there shouldn't be need to follow them and end up lossing everything in enemy territory.
*Remember gimli leadership gives a lot of armor, use debuff before watcher.
*Remember watcher knockbacks heros as i said above. You don't really need to use it ABOVE heros. Use a bit north if you want them knockbacked to south, and viceversa. Watcher arms also knockback, which is also in your favor. WHEN YOU USE WATCHER AGAINST HEROS, YOU SHOULD HAVE A ARMY PREPARED TO HIT THE HEROS IN THE GROUND.
*If you are onhost, try to delete the structures gloin Shake foundations is about to take down. Find the exact moment once ability is used, then you would be avoiding gloin to get exp and you get ur 50% resources bak. I saw Arion do this during the game, but not you.

Resume: this aint rotwk, try to conserv units. Care about your units a bit, give them love. Specially if you are playing without heros.

where do i find more stuff like thse???? i just know like a LOT of informations about dwarves just now....!!!!!

Posts: 130

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2


+
# 15StrayHeart Jun 28 2018, 15:33 PM
QUOTE(Storm Crow @ Jun 28 2018, 14:01 PM) *

where do i find more stuff like thse???? i just know like a LOT of informations about dwarves just now....!!!!!

Look how mamy games he played. Try playing at least half of these in ur life, so maybe u learn through experience.

Tengo que regresar porque tenemos que hablar.

This post has been edited by StrayHeart: Jun 28 2018, 16:00 PM

Posts: 1,423

Game: Rise of the Witch King


+
# 16SilverBane Jun 28 2018, 20:22 PM
There's a much easier way to learn all that - learn coding in .inis!
Look at me, I don't spam games, but I know a lot of things about the game just because I had an interest in custom maps and modding.

Posts: 777

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2


+
# 17StrayHeart Jun 28 2018, 21:11 PM
QUOTE(SilverBane @ Jun 28 2018, 21:22 PM) *

There's a much easier way to learn all that - learn coding in .inis!
Look at me, I don't spam games, but I know a lot of things about the game just because I had an interest in custom maps and modding.

Is it enough when you start reading changeslogs or get to know all unit, upgrade and heroes' parameters? XD

Posts: 1,423

Game: Rise of the Witch King


+
# 18SeñorEcthelion Jun 28 2018, 21:15 PM
There are ancient 1.6 and bt2dc guides that explains very well everythings counter. And the Watcher bullshit is pure observation and hard learning through dwarven frustration against Scorpion.
The micro and strategy thing is frut of the continuos research of winning offhost against scorpion campy isen or greek lamer.
3.5k of games is nothing if you dont use the positivist post medieval Razón


Posts: 5,132

Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2


+

2 User(s) are reading this topic (2 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)