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turtling aeon

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# 1redarrow7216 Apr 8 2011, 09:36 AM
Hi all,

so I was playing some 1v1's on open palms when it happened again!

PGENS!

I love to micro more than to build. So I think turtle's are boring and ruin an aspect of the game. besides, it always takes so long to take them out.

I was playing cybran and stopped building loyalists when I saw lots of pgens and 2 pd's. had to grab some extra mass, and started arty. pushed out some adapters to counter TML, untill I penetrated his shields.

While I don't have a lot of trouble dealing with turtles I'm curious about how you deal with them.

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# 2X-Flame Apr 8 2011, 13:09 PM
Push early, destroy early. Aoen is pretty bleh in cracking turtlers due to lack of LRA.

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# 3NuclearPizza Apr 8 2011, 13:18 PM
UEF/Cybran counter to beamgen turtle: expand + rush long range arty + get your own mass conversion

Illuminate counter: rush tml and spam mml (build shields just out of range of the beams to protect mml)

Always make sure you let him spend 8 research points to electroshock by sending a small group of units

If you do this right, he should have no chance of winning

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# 4splattedone Apr 9 2011, 01:39 AM
If someone turtles vs me I just chuckle, then build 20 mexes and cruise to my free win with my huge eco. Turtling is extremely tough to pull off in a 1v1 unless your opponent sucks (or you get lucky, like when DK beat Gundam with pgens on Palms). Usually minor experimentals and mmls are the best way to actually kill the turtle, but theyr'e basically dead as soon as they let you get ahead in the eco (assuming you don't waste tanks and give them free rp to go for mass conversion).

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# 5LYNK May 16 2011, 23:17 PM
QUOTE(X-Flame @ Apr 8 2011, 08:09 AM) *

Push early, destroy early. Aoen is pretty bleh in cracking turtlers due to lack of LRA.

isnt TML stronger then artillery? TML damage=Disruptor station damage (not sure about rate of fire though)

This post has been edited by LYNK: May 16 2011, 23:18 PM

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# 6splattedone May 17 2011, 22:28 PM
QUOTE(LYNK @ May 16 2011, 19:17 PM) *

isnt TML stronger then artillery? TML damage=Disruptor station damage (not sure about rate of fire though)

Arty has splash and isn't blocked my anti missile units like adaptors. In terms of straight up damage, yes, TML is better. But it loses its use a lot more quickly.

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# 7LYNK May 18 2011, 19:42 PM
QUOTE(splattedone @ May 17 2011, 17:28 PM) *

Arty has splash and isn't blocked my anti missile units like adaptors. In terms of straight up damage, yes, TML is better. But it loses its use a lot more quickly.

honestly, anti missle units, i almost never see them, sheilds block both arty/TML fire

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# 8To.rN May 19 2011, 01:44 AM
Yeah, but there's a number factor involved when facing TML / MML. If he has tons of them, the dumb thing to do is going for shields.

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# 9LYNK May 19 2011, 19:48 PM
QUOTE(To.rN @ May 18 2011, 20:44 PM) *

Yeah, but there's a number factor involved when facing TML / MML. If he has tons of them, the dumb thing to do is going for shields.

Its a dumb idea just to let ur opponent spam TML, its very stoppable, so y let it be a problem?

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# 10redarrow7216 May 20 2011, 05:51 AM
QUOTE(LYNK @ May 19 2011, 19:48 PM) *

Its a dumb idea just to let ur opponent spam TML, its very stoppable, so y let it be a problem?


Torn is suggesting getting shields is stupid, which I agree on. TML is very stoppable using anti-missile units, it sucks though if the TML is early game. Also you should play more games as I see those units on a regular basis.

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# 11LYNK May 20 2011, 11:44 AM
QUOTE(redarrow7216 @ May 20 2011, 00:51 AM) *

Torn is suggesting getting shields is stupid, which I agree on. TML is very stoppable using anti-missile units, it sucks though if the TML is early game. Also you should play more games as I see those units on a regular basis.

what i meant was destroy immediately if you see one

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# 12splattedone May 20 2011, 20:30 PM
QUOTE(LYNK @ May 20 2011, 07:44 AM) *

what i meant was destroy immediately if you see one

Good luck with that if they've gone beamgens first (as is common in FFAs). It's easier to defend against with anti-missile units than to attack.

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# 13LYNK May 20 2011, 23:54 PM
QUOTE(splattedone @ May 20 2011, 15:30 PM) *

Good luck with that if they've gone beamgens first (as is common in FFAs). It's easier to defend against with anti-missile units than to attack.

didnt think of electroshock...

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# 14Galeton Jun 15 2011, 11:44 AM
OK, so i've got another question. My friends and i usually have the nn na rule on fairly large maps (3v3 and 4v4). Now one of them is expert in beamgen turtling and just like the gundam vs pgens gets up loyalty guns. So ground is no option, arty and nukes arent allowed and i found only way to deal with them is gunship/ACU snipe. Is this a good way to go when these rules are set? Or would you suggest something else?

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# 15Mortiferus Rosa Jun 15 2011, 13:31 PM
QUOTE(Galeton @ Jun 15 2011, 06:44 AM) *

OK, so i've got another question. My friends and i usually have the nn na rule on fairly large maps (3v3 and 4v4). Now one of them is expert in beamgen turtling and just like the gundam vs pgens gets up loyalty guns. So ground is no option, arty and nukes arent allowed and i found only way to deal with them is gunship/ACU snipe. Is this a good way to go when these rules are set? Or would you suggest something else?


Dont play nn, na games smile.gif

I can understand playing no nukes when going against an AI because there program seems to make them extremely nuke happy.

If you are playing as Aeon, use your space temple to jump units directly onto the Lolgun.

This post has been edited by The-Baron: Jun 15 2011, 13:32 PM

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# 16redarrow7216 Jun 15 2011, 13:51 PM
you could also use MML/pshield spam before he manages to built a lol gun.

Same goes for cybran adapters/cobra's. Though you'll need 8 research to get that. I think mega's outrange Eshock as well, which are 13 points but more valuable in some occasions.

And I agree with the baron. Don't play NN/NA games. I rarely see it happen anyways. Or people built it for fun, because they've won already.

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# 17Galeton Jun 15 2011, 18:15 PM
Ok, let me specify the situation,

we're with about 5 to 8 people on average on a twice a year LAN, no-one plays the game during the year except for the LAN. Now normally they dont play RTS, and what do you do when you dont do RTS? you turtle in a way that makes sense if you dont play RTS; build massive defensive structures, barely expend outside the immediate 4 to 9 mex points around you initial start, and then build massive experimental armies.

Now me and the other guy, with the lol gun i was talking about before, play the game a bit more (or at least try to learn better tactics). So if we go for a rush, the games last for 10 minutes max, if we give them time to build up something, they have such vast defensive structures that only way is to go experimental all out or nuke/arty, which resulted in 5 hour battles where everyone just sits there hoping they could build more arty then the opponent build shields or build more nukes then the opponent can build anti-nukes.

To prevent that, the others decided to go for slow research, to 'provoke' us to build normal units first for RP battles. NN and NA rules were applied cause I (and the other guy as well) started firing 15 nukes at a time when i got bored wiping out the entire map.

So that's the reason we have the following (noobish) rules;
NN
NA
10 min no rush
slow research

So whilst i'm learning to play the game on an online level, i'm still always thiinking about new ways to beat my friends at the LAN without wiping htem out in 10 minutes or leaving them too long so games last 5 hours.

Pretty much i let them make the rules because they're friends and we're all trying to have a laugh.

(went a bit off-topic here, but thank you for the new ways of defeating aeon turtleing under these conditions)

This post has been edited by Galeton: Jun 15 2011, 18:17 PM

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# 18Mortiferus Rosa Jun 16 2011, 02:27 AM
If you are doing slow research, then do not feed units to the pgens. That is what allows him to research the lolgun so "fast"

Do as redarrow said with the mmls and if you are UEF or Cybran, then push for the fatty or the megalith (respectivly)

(a real laugh would be to build land units and research towards the AC1K; only building that one air unit when the time comes)

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# 19redarrow7216 Jun 16 2011, 10:17 AM
E shock still outranges MML..

if you're aeon as well it'll be a bit harder to crack it's shell. TML would do since it's slow research. ;-)

they can't built shields or antimissile units AND e shock at the same time, while you'll have TML.

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# 20Mortiferus Rosa Jun 16 2011, 21:07 PM
QUOTE(redarrow7216 @ Jun 16 2011, 05:17 AM) *

E shock still outranges MML...


With the range upgrade (uef and aeon) it is equal distance. If you send in a cluster to snipe one pgen; retreat, repair and repeat, then your losses are little to none.

Cybran recyclers are fun for pushing those back as well (pulse can attest to that) but they are a bit expensive for a slow research game.

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