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GameReplays.org _ Nod Strategies _ Vertigoes-bad?

Posted by: love_the_game Jun 8 2010, 16:35 PM

OMG I just read in a forum called "useless" that someon made a list of useless things and he put vertigoes on the list. What is wrong with u? I think vertigoes are insane, I have been saved by vertigoes way to many times from pwning stealthed flame tanks in my base that thought they were pwning me to killing 3 juggernauts with 2 vertigoes and then even saving my ass when 15 beam cannons snuck up and was about to fry my HQ until I had a vertigo kill 7 of them with 1 bomb and the other vertigo killed 5, the other three retreated like the idiotic tactics of beam spamming they represent. Plus so what if the air tower is vunerable, u can stealth if for $500, put it in the back of your base, and just have the vertigoes flying around. Plus, with the vertigo upgrade, you can launch a stealth emiter thing onto a flame tank for $300. Now think about this, that stealth emiter thingy sticks to vehicals so not only that vehical is stealthed, but so are the vehicals around it. So with a dirty stealth flame tank attack, 3 flame tanks would be stealthed if they stay together for only $300 while if you use cloaking field which does almost the exact same thing for $3000, well lets just say ur saving alot.


So whoever said vertigoes suck, then maybe ur a noob and u run them into 4 firehawks with air to air missles trying to kill them with ur rear machine gun lol. ohmy.gif

Posted by: Tcastrol Jun 8 2010, 21:13 PM

They are not bad, just are not worth the risk when you can build or train specters.

specter = $1,200

vertigo = $1,800 ( I think. . . )

Its just, that they can be taken out easily and have a very slow reload time.

Posted by: Gromij Jun 9 2010, 01:56 AM

im not gonna repeat my arguements from the other thread, but i will say again: vertigos are fricking awesome units and when i played nod in top 10 last month i used them in more than half of my games.

Posted by: love_the_game Jun 9 2010, 04:30 AM

QUOTE(Tcastrol @ Jun 8 2010, 21:13 PM) *

They are not bad, just are not worth the risk when you can build or train specters.

specter = $1,200

vertigo = $1,800 ( I think. . . )

Its just, that they can be taken out easily and have a very slow reload time.

dude... specters are $1,500

Posted by: Tcastrol Jun 9 2010, 05:01 AM

Ok 300 less, although I don't think there is a point to discuss this here since it was already discussed on a different post.

Posted by: Tcastrol Jun 9 2010, 05:10 AM

Ok 300 less, although I don't think there is a point to discuss this here since it was already discussed on a different post.

Posted by: cnc315d34d Jun 9 2010, 05:54 AM

right, and this thread was started by someone who said "pacs are op" in his previous thread


yes i made that list and i did say verts suck
and i do think they suck

most of the time when someone uses verts vs me theyre already winning
----
lets get this straight

- theyre GOOD vs harvs yes, this is one reason i would build verts sometimes, but usually i find tibcores and t4 laming better... not to mention some upgraded aa turrets totally rapes verts.
- theyre GOOD vs n00bs who clump up their armies, but MEDIOCRE vs people who use formation. as i said... you can talk all day long about how awesome it was when your 1 vert 1shotted 10 clumped up scorps, but fact is with formation move (you know, that command which only demands holding down both buttons of your mouse for less than a second) you wont kill more than 1-2 in one go, and i dont think its worth it

- even forcefiring fails >50% of the time with verts, same with fhawks. they bug out, dont shoot and just keep flying over the target only to get shot down soon after.

Posted by: Tcastrol Jun 9 2010, 06:12 AM

QUOTE
right, and this thread was started by someone who said "pacs are op" in his previous thread

Pretty sure that was me.

Posted by: cnc315d34d Jun 9 2010, 06:21 AM

oh ok sorry my bad

Posted by: Tcastrol Jun 9 2010, 15:28 PM

No problem, nothing to apologize for.

Posted by: Ice$torm Jun 11 2010, 04:14 AM

Verties aren't bad, i just dont think they are cost effective. I mean if i'm just lulzing around I'll build like 9 to kill my opponents not fenced con yard, but other than that, yh, just get specters.

Posted by: Gonna_Kill_Ya Jul 17 2010, 00:10 AM

My all-time favourite use of vertigoes is to have 2 waiting at a gdi airfield, then killing 4 pesky firehawks when they land.

KABOOM!

Posted by: FuxyMaxy Jul 28 2010, 07:56 AM

QUOTE(cnc315d34d @ Jun 9 2010, 07:54 AM) *


- theyre GOOD vs n00bs who clump up their armies, but MEDIOCRE vs people who use formation. as i said... you can talk all day long about how awesome it was when your 1 vert 1shotted 10 clumped up scorps, but fact is with formation move (you know, that command which only demands holding down both buttons of your mouse for less than a second) you wont kill more than 1-2 in one go, and i dont think its worth it

- even forcefiring fails >50% of the time with verts, same with fhawks. they bug out, dont shoot and just keep flying over the target only to get shot down soon after.



I agree with you that they aren't that smashing machines in overall, thus they are specifically for clumsy and overjammed maps, where they can rely on their advantage. I would like to see how much Mediocre player can manage to keep in a formation stance more than 10 units in a map like Redzone. Of course, mediocres don't play redzone, but that's not a must.
So, lets say ,they don't suck, just they need a more cautios strategy and preparation.


From my opinion, if they would lower the price of vertigo below 1200 then there will surely be more gamers who would take in consideration relying on them on the battlefield.

Posted by: asdf999 Jul 28 2010, 12:30 PM

QUOTE(FuxyMaxy @ Jul 27 2010, 23:56 PM) *

if they would lower the price of vertigo below 1200

that sounds ridiculous

Posted by: Masked Jul 28 2010, 12:32 PM

Verts are fine, just don't go with a mentality that I will always build them late game.

Posted by: cnc315d34d Jul 28 2010, 15:22 PM

theres a reason theyre one of the most underused units in the game

they blow

Posted by: Masked Jul 28 2010, 15:32 PM

Well, you need to pick the right situation. Like flat out jugg spam on decision, i think they have a use if you scout properly.

Posted by: R3D^'MaRTIAN' Jul 29 2010, 00:39 AM

Verts are fine, the perform their role nicely.

Posted by: pistolboy Jul 29 2010, 05:33 AM

Yeah, verts have their uses but require a lot of baby-sitting and bug out at force fire. But reducing their reload time can lead to mass rape pretty quickly so, one can see the reason behind this. If you are turtling then definitely build them. Bit expensive but 8 verts can wreak havoc if used properly and scare any lone Hexa or Marv back into the base. I have been in games on Nod gardens tongue.gif where punters have lined up 16 verts and downed an epic in 3 seconds. Now that's just lolrape.

Posted by: cnc315d34d Jul 29 2010, 05:55 AM

QUOTE
But reducing their reload time can lead to mass rape pretty quickly so, one can see the reason behind this

how can it lead to mass rape... srsly? they dont cost $1800 for nothing.
they have their own super hardcounters like many other units

wtf are they good at?
killing buildings? loloool with fences requiring you to get like 10 verts for a Warfac/tech this is the very definition of something being cost ineffective.

killing pps? even fhawks are barely cost-effective at doing this if it werent for hardpoints+strato, let alone slowass $1800 bombers with 2x the reload+run time.

killing armies? they get owned fast by aa and honestly, you dont get a
cost-effective trade vs a decently formed up army because their AoE is just pathetic+ bug out when forcefire.

killing harvs? one area where they can be good, esp if you can score multiple kills on bugged out harvs... but again, 2 upgraded aa turrets gg. id rather take the tibcore bike/stank+t4 oneclick route for harassment.

epics? its a total joke to use them on epics imo. You need a ridculous number of verts to leave anything more than a scratch mark on the epic. Their horrendously long reload allows more than enough time for the opponent to bring in some aa or kill the verts at airfield.
Verts can be good for killing corrupters behind a hexa, thats about it... but if the hexa has shock hardpoints (which any decent player will have 90%+ of the time)... essentially youre looking at a $1800 kamikaze unit.

you can totally rule out using verts vs redeemers because
- in nod mirrors verts are totally useless (1 tibcore bike lololol2shottingverts)
- stealth epic

so that kinda leaves you with just the marv - but this is a faction that can own 4 verts sitting on the airfield with one stratohawk kamikaze run.

i rest my case. verts have their -very- limited and situational uses, but honestly there are simply better things in nods arsenal.


also on ffas you can wreak havoc with sorts of shit that would never work in 1v1s, simply because its totally random and luck based...
ffas should never be considered when making balance arguments.

Posted by: R3D^'MaRTIAN' Jul 29 2010, 13:14 PM

ffs l2p.

Posted by: Dune Sep 10 2010, 17:16 PM

Vertigos are amazing. I prefer them to firehawks because they are stealthed and create an AOE damage. They are great tank hunters, because of their splash damage you can take out half an army of tanks with a few vertigos.
They are great harvester hunters as well.

Firehawks > against buildings
Vertigos > against units

Posted by: cnc315d34d Sep 10 2010, 17:31 PM

...
verts suck vs armies

all i need a simple formation move command for my tanks and it auto-gg's verts.
i mean just look at the numbers
its just 40 aoe for verts... thats pea sized compared to the specter's 110 or even smaller than the zorca or pitbull mortars 60 or 50.

not to mention the ridiculously long reload time

verts are good for harv harassment ill give you that
but worth 1800? ehh id rather have more stanks in most situations


fhawks on the other hand are just beast
they get two amazing upgrades (one that cuts their sortie time by 50% and another that boosts their damage by 50%... big numbers there) and come reasonably cheap at 1500

ofc vs nod its just better to go orcas usually since its all about beating redeemer spam
=========
honestly there are a handful of units in this game that look and feel "cool" and hence give an impression that theyre actually that

the "cool" factor usually comes from their visual appeal, sound effects or w/e.

vertigos and zonetroopers are two good examples.
theyre pretty cool concepts, look and feel awesome.

but theyre just more show than go.

dont let appearance deceive you.

Posted by: Tcastrol Sep 11 2010, 07:23 AM

QUOTE
verts suck vs armies

all i need a simple formation move command for my tanks and it auto-gg's verts.
i mean just look at the numbers
its just 40 aoe for verts... thats pea sized compared to the specter's 110 or even smaller than the zorca or pitbull mortars 60 or 50.

not to mention the ridiculously long reload time

verts are good for harv harassment ill give you that
but worth 1800? ehh id rather have more stanks in most situations


fhawks on the other hand are just beast
they get two amazing upgrades (one that cuts their sortie time by 50% and another that boosts their damage by 50%... big numbers there) and come reasonably cheap at 1500

ofc vs nod its just better to go orcas usually since its all about beating redeemer spam
=========
honestly there are a handful of units in this game that look and feel "cool" and hence give an impression that theyre actually that

the "cool" factor usually comes from their visual appeal, sound effects or w/e.

vertigos and zonetroopers are two good examples.
theyre pretty cool concepts, look and feel awesome.

but theyre just more show than go.

dont let appearance deceive you.


Well said

Posted by: xxadamxx0001 Sep 11 2010, 07:59 AM

You should check my post in the mess hall. Its about 20 vertigo's and 3 of them with heroic. And with 20 you can take out about 4 or 5 devastators warships with em. The forum post is nod bombers are awesome. Though if the fire hawks have air to air missiles and the vertigoes are bunched up well there pretty much gone.

Posted by: asdf999 Sep 12 2010, 03:52 AM

if you have the time and money to build 20 vertigos you probably couldve won a while ago

Posted by: xxadamxx0001 Sep 12 2010, 06:13 AM

QUOTE(asdf999 @ Sep 12 2010, 03:52 AM) *

if you have the time and money to build 20 vertigos you probably couldve won a while ago

Ya you're right buttttt. I was testing some strategies for the nod against scrin and I made 20 vertigo's. And the map was ground zero I also found this strategy works well if you have maybe 3 or 2 air towers/Gravity stabilizers/Airfields on the map ground zero you can bomb all the bridges that let the enemy units get to the middle area. the enemy's base so they cant get to the middle tib field. Lol a kind of blitz strategy you may call it.

Posted by: Dune Sep 15 2010, 02:40 AM

QUOTE(cnc315d34d @ Sep 10 2010, 12:31 PM) *

...
verts suck vs armies


You've obviously never used them effectively. They one hit kill predators, and a couple vertigos can take out a couple juggs if they are close together which they usually are.

Posted by: cnc315d34d Sep 15 2010, 02:56 AM

youve obviously never heard of formation move

when i know there are verts around (not hard to with pwnsome radarscan) i just need to spread my preds or juggs a wee bit and gg

they dont even 1shot preds btw, they leave them in red
and whoever spams just preds - with some ap apcs in the mix your verts are reduced to mere overpriced kamikaze peashooters

i laugh when i see people use verts vs me, unless im already losing which is the only time ive actually seen them being 'used effectively'


now when he starts spamming obelisks and redeemers or specs.. thats when i start worrying

Posted by: asdf999 Sep 15 2010, 03:46 AM

QUOTE(cnc315d34d @ Sep 14 2010, 18:56 PM) *


now when he starts spamming...redeemers

how do you spam redeemers

Posted by: CaptainGerg Sep 16 2010, 20:27 PM

I dunno, the mobility, armor, speed, and stealth of the Vert combines to make it viable in most situations where other alternate units (Specter, Stanks) wouldn't be usable. I think they're situational, and there are certainly times where artillery would be better, but you'll be hard pressed to find a time where they aren't useful in some degree.

Posted by: Eph2.8-9 Sep 22 2010, 16:58 PM

QUOTE(CaptainGerg @ Sep 16 2010, 15:27 PM) *

I dunno, the mobility, armor, speed, and stealth of the Vert combines to make it viable in most situations where other alternate units (Specter, Stanks) wouldn't be usable. I think they're situational, and there are certainly times where artillery would be better, but you'll be hard pressed to find a time where they aren't useful in some degree.


The best thing Vertigos do is force your opponent to invest in anti-air. They're better versus Scrin IMO for taking out Mechapedes (maybe) and picking off Tripods or Corrupters, but only outside of the Scrin base. Due to Scrin having relatively weak mobile anti-air and stealth detect, it's going to force those War Factories to build something other than Tripods, Hexapod, Corrupters, Mechapedes.

You still won't do crap against a Plasma Turret without losing tons of Vertigos for even flying near the blasted thing.

Posted by: R3D^'MaRTIAN' Sep 23 2010, 20:37 PM

I use vertigoes to counter support units such as shatterers, juggs, spectres, corrs etc. Usually even if they formation move you can hit atleast two off any unit, and one shot most of them.

Posted by: Chr1st14n Oct 13 2010, 18:16 PM

A couple Vertigoes are nice for killing Juggernauts, especially since they tend to clump up...if you can make two of them before GDI sees them, you can easily change the game by nailing their first 2-3 Juggernauts, as they're probably clumped up, 'cause they didn't see the air tower yet...

That said, I wouldn't make more than two of them in almost any 1v1 game.

Posted by: BobbyMacBob Mar 21 2015, 22:31 PM

I think verts are a pretty ok thing but only in a couple situations.
1# camping. As the best way to break a camp is via artillery/epics verts can be useful for taking out enemy artillery sections (if GDI as juggs clump a LOT) and for doing nice DPS v epics so your artillery/epic can finish it off.
2# when you have already won. Vertigoes can do nice jobs and sealing deals in games (example: all your enemy has is a medium sized tank force left and is about to die and your vertigoes just soften up enough to help you finish them off.)
3# When your enemy doesn't expect them. When I go verts I usually put them at the back of my base making it hard to scout so my enemy doesn't expect them which allows me to use em to kill a couple buildings or units paving the way for my attack.
4# ffas. This is like the camping in the fact that a lot of what Nod (usually) does in ffas is camp/artillery spam.
There are also a couple other things but that sums it up.

Posted by: Masazumi Nov 21 2018, 05:25 AM

Somebody here clearly doesn't know how to use Vertigo Bombers, or has been traumatized by them; they're situational units, I'll throw verts at juggernauts over specters any day of the week. Good players yes will keep AA and Stealth Detection nearby, but not every player is a good player, and in most situations, nobody is ever thinking about vertigo bombers; like all of Nod's Units, they're designed for sneaky plays.

Vertigoes were Nod's answer to GDI's Juggernauts in Tiberium Wars, when Nod did not have Specters. There are plenty of times where Vertigo Bombers have turned the tides of battle from GDI winning to my Nod army winning, simply because four Vertigo Bombers just popped out of nowhere as far as the enemy is concerned.

Another thing, once the opponent figures out that Vertigoes are in fact a thing, and are flying where ever they please on the map, the opponent is going to invest thousands upon thousands preparing for the things once they realize "I can't find these things." By the time he's got all his AA up, you'll have yourself a well rounded Bike-Buggy or strong ground force, and win the game then and there.

If you got Vertigoes, you most likely have Disruption Towers as well; they're great investments and pretty much game winning units when used correctly.

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