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Suppressive fire

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# 1groph Oct 17 2010, 19:25 PM
First off, I am -very- new at this game, I've only been playing it online for maybe 3 days with like 4 hours play time in total. I don't really know the map's names or the ins and outs of their respective layouts/terrain.

In FPS games I was never the one to go all out Rambo style (I know being Rambo is a bad idea in this game) with an assault rifle right up at the front line in the thick of the action. I like to be close to the front, but behind cover and hopefully away from the exploding grenades. The idea of providing covering fire has always appealed to me and I love light machine guns, so I've been playing as the Medic class the most. I read through the article on suppressive fire already, but it's still sort of unclear. I am under the impression that most games are fairly uncoordinated; people pretty much run aimlessly unless they're experienced at the game and know where to go and know all the rules of thumb for each map. If there are experienced people in a match, they will sort of naturally be doing the same things. Ideally, everyone would have teamspeak/ventrilo and squads would be super coordinated and super effective but this is usually probably not the case. So I'm just wondering where suppressive fire factors into the equation.

The article basically said that suppressive fire is about herding sheep. The objective is to find an enemy, spot him, and start spraying lead at him, either killing him or making him run somewhere else, hopefully into a hidden engineer who will silently dispatch him with a knife or something. But let's be real. Does that kind of a trap ever get set up in a game which is generally uncoordinated? Am I hurting my team by trying to suppress? I guess at the absolute least I am generating some kind of disruption (which I know is VERY effective againt human players), if you're running down a street and suddenly someone opens up on you with a machine gun, first off you get the shit scared out of you and you think fast, which is usually not a good thing. This kind of disruption would be good against other relatively inexperienced players (so most of us).

So far, providing suppression has brought me the greatest joy in this game and I want to continue doing so. So on to part 2 of this post, what weapons are the best for it? I went through the index and discovered that there is a machine gun with 1000 RPM, which to me = best suppression weapon simply due to the retarded rate of fire, but it's damage isn't very good so it's often avoided. The "best" LMG (M60?) has a low rate of fire but high damage, which is good I guess, but the low rate of fire turns me off. As of now I have the SAW unlocked (I fucking hated the PKM) and so far I love it. It has a good enough rate of fire and the iron sights are great and the damage is respectable, so if it were left up to me, I'd stick with the SAW. It also has twice the magazine capacity which is half the reason why I like it so much. I can just keep the trigger down and hose away at enemies in cover/snipers in windows. It seems to fit my playstyle so I'll probably keep using it. Thoughts? What upgrades/perks/whatever are good with the SAW?

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# 2Ender_Graff Oct 17 2010, 23:18 PM
To answer your first question; No! Your deffinatly not hurting the your team by suppressing the enemy, quite the opposite. You should try to go for the kill, but if you cant get enough lead into him, keeping him damaged behind some cover will put him out of action at the least. Also, make sure you spot the target every chance you get, that way someone else can possibly finish him off.

Secondly, yes, the SAW is a fantastic weapon for suppression fire because of its high rate of fire along with the extra 100 rounds in a mag. The SAW's irons are usable, but many people think a red dot or 4x is usefull for hitting your targets. Personally, id stay away from the 4x on the SAW, as its high RoF (Rate of Fire) makes it good at close quarters; a 4x would hinder your close quarter effectiveness because of the extra zoom.

Judging by your lack of play time, you probobly havnt unlocked many of the Specs for you to use. However, if your happy with the SAW's iron sights, take either lightweight to help you get to those fallen teamates and revive them faster, or take one the medkit H+ spec. This spec increases the rate at which injured teamates are healed by your medkits and is very usefull. For spec number two, taking either magnum ammo, body armor, or the Medkit R+ (range increase, also useful!) work very well.

When I first started the game I fell in love with the SAW as well. Very good weapon smile.gif

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# 3groph Oct 17 2010, 23:44 PM
QUOTE(Ender_Graff @ Oct 17 2010, 23:18 PM) *

To answer your first question; No! Your deffinatly not hurting the your team by suppressing the enemy, quite the opposite. You should try to go for the kill, but if you cant get enough lead into him, keeping him damaged behind some cover will put him out of action at the least. Also, make sure you spot the target every chance you get, that way someone else can possibly finish him off.

Secondly, yes, the SAW is a fantastic weapon for suppression fire because of its high rate of fire along with the extra 100 rounds in a mag. The SAW's irons are usable, but many people think a red dot or 4x is usefull for hitting your targets. Personally, id stay away from the 4x on the SAW, as its high RoF (Rate of Fire) makes it good at close quarters; a 4x would hinder your close quarter effectiveness because of the extra zoom.

Judging by your lack of play time, you probobly havnt unlocked many of the Specs for you to use. However, if your happy with the SAW's iron sights, take either lightweight to help you get to those fallen teamates and revive them faster, or take one the medkit H+ spec. This spec increases the rate at which injured teamates are healed by your medkits and is very usefull. For spec number two, taking either magnum ammo, body armor, or the Medkit R+ (range increase, also useful!) work very well.

When I first started the game I fell in love with the SAW as well. Very good weapon smile.gif



I'll need to test the SAW out some more. I've since unlocked the T88 and the iron sights are much better. The damage is also considerably higher. I guess it will come down to maps. The T88 is useless at close range but the SAW can hold it's own. I agree on the sights. I have the red dot sight next in the queue which I'd use with the SAW, but the T88's sights are just fine. I have the medkit H+ in slot one right now. I'd probably go with body armor or Medkit R+ once I have it.

Tanks are a bitch though as a medic eh?

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# 4Ender_Graff Oct 18 2010, 00:09 AM
QUOTE(groph @ Oct 17 2010, 19:44 PM) *

I'll need to test the SAW out some more. I've since unlocked the T88 and the iron sights are much better. The damage is also considerably higher. I guess it will come down to maps. The T88 is useless at close range but the SAW can hold it's own. I agree on the sights. I have the red dot sight next in the queue which I'd use with the SAW, but the T88's sights are just fine. I have the medkit H+ in slot one right now. I'd probably go with body armor or Medkit R+ once I have it.

Tanks are a bitch though as a medic eh?

The T88 is also great for longer range suppression because of the 200 bullets and the good damage/lower recoil.
For my medic class, i have a gun for long range, and a gun for close range. My long range is the MG36 or XM8LMG with a 4x and my close range is the SAW smile.gif

And tanks are a medics worst enemy dry.gif

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# 5blackx Oct 18 2010, 10:51 AM
QUOTE(Ender_Graff @ Oct 18 2010, 08:09 AM) *

The T88 is also great for longer range suppression because of the 200 bullets and the good damage/lower recoil.
For my medic class, i have a gun for long range, and a gun for close range. My long range is the MG36 or XM8LMG with a 4x and my close range is the SAW smile.gif

And tanks are a medics worst enemy dry.gif




Not so tough with the LMG ehh? tongue.gif

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# 6Moliat Oct 18 2010, 18:26 PM
Wait until you get the MG36. First you're likely to need new shorts as the gun is awesome on it's own accord when it comes to killing targets, but the weapon also makes love to your ears when you tickle the trigger. Okay, bottom line: it sounds like it kicks like a mule, but it's gentle to handle. It's in other words one of the best suppressing LMGs in the game, but you can't keep it up for veeeery long as it doesn't match the 200 round magazine of the SAW and T88. Personally every LMG is my 'favourite LMG' (except the M60 because it's lame), and the second best suppressive LMG is the T88 in my opinion. You don't really want a very high rate of fire like that of the SAW when suppressing. You want something intimidating, and something with a decent rate of fire so it sounds like a hail of bullets. At the same time you want to it to make a lot of noise so it sounds like the bullets carry a hell of a punch. This will keep your enemy in place, and if he moves, he dies. If he doesn't, you can close in for the kill, firing in bursts or keeping the spray up. Ultimately one of your teammates will use the golden opportunity and finish the bastard.

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# 7GhostrideR Oct 19 2010, 17:47 PM
QUOTE(Ender_Graff @ Oct 17 2010, 17:18 PM) *

take either lightweight to help you get to those fallen teamates and revive them faster, or take one the medkit H+ spec. This spec increases the rate at which injured teamates are healed by your medkits and is very usefull. For spec number two, taking either magnum ammo, body armor, or the Medkit R+ (range increase, also useful!) work very well.


This is the most important thing. Yes you can help your team by suppressing the enemy, but you will best help them by being a good medic. Your top priority should always be healing and reviving first, shoot and kill second.

The MG3 is a great gun, don't let the relatively low damage fool you. My favorite lmg is a tie between the XM8LMG and the T88. I'm not a big fan of the MG36. I can't tell you exactly what it is I don't like about it, it just doesn't jive with me really well. I tend to play better with the other two I listed.

And don't dis the PKM!!! It's a great gun, you just have to give it a chance and practice with it. But like the MG36 for me, it may not be your cup of tea.

When defending MCOMs as a medic I like to use shotties. Easier to drop close range enemies. Like the last two MCOMs on Port Valdez. Stay close to the MCOMs and kill enemies that encroach and keep team mates that are helping you alive. 5 or 6 defenders with a couple of medics can do a lot of damage as long as the medics are reviving and dropping health kits.

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# 8M26 Oct 21 2010, 06:45 AM
Don't forget the suppressive value of stationary machine guns, I am way more likely to just bolt for cover than return fire back when one of those is on my case. Snipers also suppress in a different way. If you just watched a buddy lose his head when he peaked around a corner or through a window, you'd be less apt to round those corners or check those windows.

This post has been edited by M26: Oct 21 2010, 06:46 AM

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# 9Ender_Graff Oct 21 2010, 19:34 PM
QUOTE(M26 @ Oct 21 2010, 02:45 AM) *

Don't forget the suppressive value of stationary machine guns, I am way more likely to just bolt for cover than return fire back when one of those is on my case. Snipers also suppress in a different way. If you just watched a buddy lose his head when he peaked around a corner or through a window, you'd be less apt to round those corners or check those windows.

Very true, never thought about those sort of suppressions. Vehicles like the Blackhawk and the Bradley are also good at suppressing in that aspect, especially if they both have good gunners.
Sometimes on Isla Innocentes I cant even break cover because the mini-guns heave me so pinned down.

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# 10groph Oct 21 2010, 20:37 PM
QUOTE(M26 @ Oct 21 2010, 06:45 AM) *

Don't forget the suppressive value of stationary machine guns, I am way more likely to just bolt for cover than return fire back when one of those is on my case. Snipers also suppress in a different way. If you just watched a buddy lose his head when he peaked around a corner or through a window, you'd be less apt to round those corners or check those windows.


Oh man, I haven't. A couple of my most satisfying kills have been with those guns. It's great seeing a guy running down a road and then opening up on him and watching him scramble for cover as the trees around him fall over. Snipers really add to the psychological effect, yeah. A hidden death.

Machine gun emplacement kills don't count towards LMG kills though I assume, do those go under vehicle points, or what?

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# 11Ender_Graff Oct 21 2010, 22:47 PM
QUOTE
Machine gun emplacement kills don't count towards LMG kills though I assume, do those go under vehicle points, or what?

Stationary weapons have there own vehicle category so yes, vehicle points smile.gif

This post has been edited by Ender_Graff: Oct 21 2010, 22:47 PM

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# 12GhostrideR Oct 22 2010, 16:04 PM
On that topic, another interesting fact is that point accumulated with normal weapons go toward whatever class you spawned as. If you spawn as engineer and pick up a recon kit, points go to your engineer kit.

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# 13riafomh Oct 22 2010, 21:02 PM
Suppressing fire in all forms is crucial in combat and I think it applies both IRL and on the virtual battlefield (particularly this game). There is always the LUCK factor - sometimes suppressing fire hits its mark, which is what makes it suppressing fire in the first place.

One element of the game that goes against suppressive fire is the shot-accuracy stat. All those sprayed bullets that hit nothing reduces your overall accuracy rating, so you kind of get wrongly penalized when you use suppressing fire.

But who cares, anyways? Suppressing fire feels like real combat, just like wasted grenades and rockets, etc., used to destroy your enemies' approaching cover is both 'realistic' and tactically sound.

To NOT use suppressing fire for the silly accuracy reason is to both rob oneself of the 'battlefield experience' and also (IMO) tactically unsound (according to circumstance).

Personally, if I'm 'Medic'-ing and suppressing fire I like to use the (name?) LMG w/ 200 rounds because I can either lay down such a continuous burst of oh-my-god-is-it-ever-going-to-end-bullet-spray across a hilltop or row of windows or whatever (while my mates sprint to better cover or some such), OR I'll also fool 'em by half-pausing my fire for a sec so they think I'm reloading when I'm not (and still have 100+ rounds to go ... ).

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# 14PerfectDeath Oct 30 2010, 22:54 PM
The article I did on suppression fire was fairly confusing, had a lot of comments from people because in video games suppression works differently than in real life.

In games, players are not very intimidated by bullets wizzing by their head, in fact, only unsuppressed sniper rifles actually "wiz". This is why missed sniper shots are an effective suppression tool, considering your not trying to land the kill =P

In video games, you want to actually hit the enemy, make their screen go red giving them a warning signal that they had better find cover. If you can position yourself well enough in relation to your team you can lead wounded enemies into your team mates.
So unloading a full 100 rounds on an enemy was only really effective for the first few bullets that hit them. The sound of bullets hitting cover will intimidate the enemy from leaving cover from the same location but that is if you have isolated them behind one "rock" or other small object.

Now the actual stats between the SAW and T88 LMGs are like so:
max damage at close range is the same but at long range the T88 holds some of its damage.

SAW fires 800 RPM vs 650 RPM of the T88, reload times are fairly similar.

The Spray value between the two, defines as the spread of bullets built up over time, gives slight favour to the SAW. And the recoil on the SAW is lower.
Basically the SAW deals slightly less damage but is slightly easier to aim with. But has a much greater rate of fire.

The SAW is a good, consistent, LMG for suppression but the T88's lower rate of fire makes it more manageable, as in you can focus on landing your shots.

Shots that hit suppress more than shots that miss. Keep that in mind. =P

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# 15YoungWalke Nov 3 2010, 00:38 AM
well, suppressive fire is a very good idea in text, and yet in game most people tend not to do just that
but if you were to attempt your tactic
then the m249 is probably the best choice, as it has a giant magazine
however, if your teams mates dont want to kill the person that was spotted, then you might want to try burst firing to both conserve ammo and give you enough time to move up
however, if you are trying to suppress the enemy by scaring them that they will die if they run across open spaces, then the mg36 with magnum ammo is a god
but if you're focusing on team aspects (which every medic in theory should)
then try to go for a balanced-ish lmg with good irons, like the m249,t88,xm8, mg36 (this baby comes with rds by default) and the medic kit upgrades, which will net you a lot of points, as well as the self satisfaction of being a team player
but on the other hand, dont waste your ammo on a target you've suppressed, as they just might wait there for more health
you can usually stop shooting to save ammo and just watch them, most of the time they won't move out completely until they have a good idea where you are or their health is back up (careful of medics especially, as they can heal themselves)
so you dont actually have to continue shooting after they're behind their rock, as they know that you're looking, which you should be, in case they try something funny

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# 16PerfectDeath Nov 3 2010, 04:39 AM
Well, in game suppression is a very quick and dirty thing, your not trying to finish your enemy off (that is for my cant & mouse guide). You want to push your enemy into cover so they do not see you or your team because they are trying to heal or trying to move (to escape or flank).

If they try to move, you should not be sitting still unless your defending a position like a flag/MCOM and moving means you get shot by some other guy.
If the battle is more open and it is safe to move after quickly suppressing, then move quick. Try to take advantage of the short period of time you occupied your enemy.
This is why any gun works at suppressing and any gun can suppress.

I guess you can also call it "pressure" were you try and keep your opponent off of his game mentally.

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# 17riafomh Nov 3 2010, 13:43 PM
QUOTE(PerfectDeath @ Oct 30 2010, 22:54 PM) *

The article I did on suppression fire was fairly confusing, had a lot of comments from people because in video games suppression works differently than in real life.

In games, players are not very intimidated by bullets wizzing by their head, in fact, only unsuppressed sniper rifles actually "wiz". This is why missed sniper shots are an effective suppression tool, considering your not trying to land the kill =P

In video games, you want to actually hit the enemy, make their screen go red giving them a warning signal that they had better find cover. If you can position yourself well enough in relation to your team you can lead wounded enemies into your team mates.
So unloading a full 100 rounds on an enemy was only really effective for the first few bullets that hit them. The sound of bullets hitting cover will intimidate the enemy from leaving cover from the same location but that is if you have isolated them behind one "rock" or other small object.

Shots that hit suppress more than shots that miss. Keep that in mind. =P

I agree. When I start getting pinged is when I 'dive' for cover. I also tend to stay in cover when stuff around me (rock, tree, cement wall) is getting peppered.

- Whiz - of sniper fire past my head is also effective

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# 18iRhuel Nov 5 2010, 09:15 AM
A word of caution about suppressing fire - it instantly reveals your exact location to anyone that might be watching. So make sure you've got a relatively narrow lane of fire as well as plenty of cover before you let loose.

Also, suppressing fire is only nominally effective when the people you're suppressing aren't really afraid of dying.

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# 19riafomh Nov 5 2010, 15:10 PM
True. IRL there's the real fear of dying. In BFBC2 there's the 'inconvenience' of having to re-spawn. Still the same 'fear' though.

Side note: IRL combat soldiers don't wantonly throw away their lives. From After-Action-Reports during WWII statistically 60% of the fighting is done by about 30% of the men (there are your veterans).

Hmm.... does anyone think that (on BFBC2) 60% of the (relevant) fighting is done by 30% of the men?

(I am having this obsession about how well or not this game approximates real combat...)

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# 20PerfectDeath Nov 5 2010, 18:25 PM
just look at the distribution of kills and points and you will get an idea,
Attached Image
Bell curves will be highly relevant for this, just refer to the later half of it on the +SD (standard deviation)

When the curve is at its highest you can easily say that the players there get the highest score &/or kills. As you venture to the right of the graph (we are ignoring the left half) the line drops down quite a bit.
Often the lowest area is because they are new coming players but mostly it is because the high ranking 1/3 gets the majority of the kills & score (since we are referring to only half of the graph, multiply the 34% by 2 = 68% of the total score) while the second third gets 28% of the total score, and the newcomers and wookie bush campers get a measly 4% because they don't spot from their bush.

Math! =D

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