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Countering fast P4 as brits

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# 1Shadilay Apr 5 2018, 15:32 PM
Hello, I am new at playing brits in COH (I mostly play wehrmacht) and I just wanted to ask you how do I counter fast Panzer IV when I am playing against a PE player? I have tried fast FST into piats, but they get rekt instantly by the P4, because he just rides in and destroys my hq command truck, (I also had a 17 pounder already built, but the P4 was out of its range).

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# 2bartyjb Apr 10 2018, 06:48 AM
It is simple, build 17-pounder near your HQ, or go for fast straight armored HQ for Cromwells
best regards

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# 3piwawsky Apr 10 2018, 12:19 PM
QUOTE(bartyjb @ Apr 10 2018, 08:48 AM) *

It is simple, build 17-pounder near your HQ, or go for fast straight armored HQ for Cromwells
best regards


that ^^

or even better, deny him fuel wink.gif
He needs 20 fuel for t1/t2, 30 fuel for t4, 60 for piv upgrade and 60 for piv itself that's 170 fuel. By that time you should have ACT and your own armor or 17p near your hq.

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# 4Shadilay Apr 15 2018, 09:43 AM
QUOTE(piwawsky @ Apr 10 2018, 12:19 PM) *

that ^^

or even better, deny him fuel wink.gif
He needs 20 fuel for t1/t2, 30 fuel for t4, 60 for piv upgrade and 60 for piv itself that's 170 fuel. By that time you should have ACT and your own armor or 17p near your hq.



Ty for your help, that means I wont play brits anymore since I hate slow caping factions biggrin.gif

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# 5miegorengwithprawns Jul 1 2018, 22:03 PM
QUOTE(Shadilay @ Apr 6 2018, 01:32 AM) *

Hello, I am new at playing brits in COH (I mostly play wehrmacht) and I just wanted to ask you how do I counter fast Panzer IV when I am playing against a PE player?


Anticipation is everything. Continuous appraisal for developmental indications better.

You have a couple of options other than the well placed already built AT gun mentioned in another post. I'm not a fan unless it's well placed built certainty. If you sim city early, it detracts from rapid expansion of offensive firepower from your important mobile forces. Unless on open ground with a clear field of view having the advantage of line of sight preferably with all approaches chokepoints, it can be more easily negated by a double PzIV bracketing rush in conjunction with Tankbusters/'shrecked PzG grens, or better, AT nades which rape Brit emplacements. Even if his PzG can't approach the AT gun because you've gone Sim City with a co-sited Vickers pit, a mortar HT will frequently deal the necessary extra quick kill damage. But an early true rush will usually precede emplacements not detrimental to fielding an effective capping and fighting inf force.

Best on the fly counters IMO are;

1. Have a trench already almost completed (90% pre-built) sitting by your HQ. N.B. Never leave a completed empty trench by your HQ.

This counter strat is co-dependent upon having at least a single squad of Piat upgraded engineers, preferably accompanied by a Lieut and/or Bren squad; & situational awareness.

In the time it takes for the PzIV to transit from his base to your truck (you will hear it before you see it) , retreat your Piats and Lieut plus Bren squad to it. You should arrive first unless you are asleep. Complete the trench, put your Piat squad, & Lieut if you have one, in it. Move your Bren squad so he has three triangulated separated targets, the trench Piats, Bren squad, and truck, which coincidentally brackets him. Immediately he approaches within range of the Piats button him with the Bren squad. The Piats will destroy his PzIV whilst he is buttoned. Even if he's not buttoned (no Bren squad or muni to use buttoning), he will be forced to retreat or lose the PzIV to entrenched Piats, usually before destroying your truck if it's at full health.

His PzIV can't destroy your Piat squad in a trench. However, if accompanied by either multiple infantry, squads, and he has upgraded to incendiary grenades, and is floating sufficient muni to use them, or he has it accompanied by a mortar HT floating muni for incendiary, you're in trouble.

The good news is that this is unlikely in any true early rush scenario unless you are asleep or Gumby. Getting to PzIV is uber FUEL greedy, doing it fast requires focus and all of it. Incendiary upgrade and mortar HT both cost fuel slow that down and require triage choices which will present on field in play forewarning you. Early, he'll be hard pressed to provide either, let alone both as well as a sufficiently early entry shock PzIV to exploit that window of opportunity. Most will choose to save that fuel on incendiary or mortar HT or anything else toward a second PzIV to exploit the shock/rush gambling on the Brit being unprepared and panic.

2. Churchill. Just 3 CP. OK, forced doctrinal choice, but that will halt any PzIV assault including multiples. If he has rushed to PzIV, he won't have AT it is so fuel greedy, or at best he might have 'shrecked PzG, and they will still be just one or two actual 'shreck armed only x3 man squads. Immediately you halt his PzIV assault, counterattack him at his base with the Churchill, and keep calling in Churchills for critical mass. ....unless .....he has not yet chosen his doctrine, or has, and gone TD with sufficient CP (4) and called in a Hetzer. If he hasn't and you don't take losses to give him the CP to call-in, all he can do to counter defend is lay a few hasty entry line mines (if Scwimm) rush build an AT HT which is fragile and one shot long recharge only immob if muni, then use shrecked PzG/expensive Tankbusters which need to be in cover to try and kill your rampaging Churchill. Multiple Chuchills will cruel this defense if he can't avail Hetzers.

If you exploit the no Hetzer window, while this is happening, if you see he has already built T2 (KK), T3, T4 buildings (unlikely in a true rush) priority decap to cut off his fuel with your inf so he can't upgrade to Panther call-ins.

If he calls in a Hetzer in counter to your Churchill, thank your lucky stars your Churchill saved your HQ arse from the PzIV rush, stop at the one, and get your AC truck on the map pronto.

This post has been edited by miegorengwithprawns: Jul 2 2018, 03:44 AM

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# 6miegorengwithprawns Jul 1 2018, 22:44 PM
QUOTE(Shadilay @ Apr 15 2018, 19:43 PM) *

Ty for your help, that means I wont play brits anymore since I hate slow caping factions biggrin.gif


A. Brits don't need to cap multiple or connected points quickly for resource with their truck secured model.

B. Brits don't cap slowly. It's just how you choose to play them wanting your Bren/Rifle Grenade cake and to eat it too. PE cap slowly. You are confusing slow capping with Brit infantry's default slow mobility unless; upgraded to recon, accompanied by a Lieut, a Lieut or Captain, is a capping unit transported by BGC/'roo (must dismount from the former or a capping speed penalty applies).

As you see, playing as Brits, you actually have several options to increase mobility, the pick of the early ones being multiple Recon squads which are coincidentally just BS deadly effective in opening game with their insta-kill size reduction snipe ability against either Wehr fragile 2 man Pio squads and 3 man MGs, or 3 man PE squads, whilst being sufficiently effective against any infantry Wehr or PE can field at that time. i.e. unupgraded 5 man Volks or mainly unupgraded just 3 man PzG. Because of Brits resourcing model, it's fast and easy to upgrade to Recon. Much more so than PzG to G43s and Volks to MP40s.

You just want Bren and Rifle Grenade rapist squads AND independent mobility when PzGs and Volks still have only Mauser 98s. It doesn't work like that unless you mass infantry & vet ASAP blob, which many successful Brit players do using a micro intensive uber-aggressive hunt and deny strategy.

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