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Battle for Middle Earth

1v1 Gondor vs Isengard

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# 1LATINO Jun 12 2021, 23:33 PM
Use this topic to discuss about anything.


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# 2Dunedain` Sep 3 2021, 16:07 PM
Hi, since the forums are pretty inactive, I will share some tips and tricks for the matchup Gondor vs Isengard. Playing as Gondor, specifically on patch 1.09.

So as most of you probably know, if you read the changelog, Both armies received more than a few changes. Some of which helped Gondor, while others helped Isengard aswell.

I will first list the most important changes to each army in this particular matchup, then further explain how they affect each part of the game, from early to late game.


Gondor Positive Changes thumb.gif


Elven wood armor boost 45% from 40%. Pretty big change, has a noticeable effect on the entire game, more on this later.

Knights buff vs pikes, great buff for Gondor, and can be the difference between winning or lose a close fight.

Shields cost reduction, great for base rushing, fighting wargs, etc.

Boromir, cost reduction, buffs in both attack+movement speed, aswell as more leadership and more.

Gandalf, no longer need white pp for him to be able to leave the base, even more useful than before as white.

Marketplace, great help for Gondor lategame, really evens the scale when Isen inevitably reaches 6pp for FtF.

Gondor Negative Changes post-13661-1143531603.gif


Uppgrades are more costly. Probably the most significant nerf to Gondor, and in this matchup where resources can be scarce on some maps, its really noticeable.

Trebuchets, damage nerf, fire uppgrades more costly, slower to get many of them, you need more time for them if you want to go this route.

Outposts, cost more, much easier to destroy, especially for wargs, you have to be a lot more careful when securing them, make sure you let it built to 100% before you garrison them.





Isengard Positive Changes thumb.gif


Warchant recharges faster, pretty self explanatory.

Slaugther houses, really useful early game, not so much mid/late game.

Saruman, again pretty obvious why he's on this list.


Isengard Negative Changes post-13661-1143531603.gif


Lurtz Lurtz armor got a big nerf. He dies a lot quicker to cavalry now, and Gandalf can pretty much one shot him with Istari no matter what level Lurtz is.

As you can see the lists are quite short, and that is because this matchup didn't change a whole lot. But the few changes makes for more variety and interesting strats being available.


Early Game


Okay so first and foremost, this is not a guide by any means, just some tips for playing this hard matchup as Gondor.
A big tip I can give is to vary your starts. You have a great advantage early on, having that strong land, so use it!
Sending 2 soldiers along the top is pretty standard, but a good Isengard can defend against this, and at best you end up with 0,5 pp with both your farms down and or half the creeps gone, before your first horse is out.
A great start with Gondor can secure you the game, then and there. But this is all easier said than done.

Barrack Start

Very risky, but high risk can also come with high reward, and so is the case here. Rax start was already a thing in 1.06, but with soldiers being slightly cheaper, and land being stronger, its even better on 1.09.

Regardless of what start you choose, your end goal should be to gather as many pp's as possible, or try to hurt Isengards economy.


Mid Game


Horses are pretty much used just like in 1.06, creep, get mc, and so forth. But in 1.09 there are some things to consider. If your start was not great, i.e you only crept 2-3 wargs, and are pretty far from elves, it may be smart to go for something other than uppgrades, since they are expensive. Such as early boromir. Boromir is great in 1.09, as he does a lot of damage to pikes, but also forces Isengard to constantly keep a watch on the pikes that are being chased, and eventually he has to buy lurtz. This gives you a window of opportunity to take fights with pikes, with some nice land placements you can get that last bit of pp for elves and fight for mc again. Boromir's horn on level 3 is also great when base rushing, as any new pike comming out of the pit, and any other unranked pike in the base are all effected by its stun.

If your start was good, then proceed as you normally would, I recommend blades first, as you will have lands on more than one location anyway, and the horses should get banners from creeps anyway.
Just remember a lvl 2 horse on land, even without blades, beats a lvl 1 pike, wheres a lvl 1 horse with blade on land will lose to that same pike. So choose your fights wisely. Boromir can be used even after a good start instead of uppgrades first, or even in conjunction with uppgrades, depending on how great your eco is.


Lategame


Ideally in lategame you should have 2-3 high ranked horses, elves, Boromir, and maybe even Gandalf.
If Isen isn't already sieging you, then you should get marketplace asap, as you won't win against a pro isengard without it, simple as. Get mp and all uppgrades, delete it, and then start pumping out rangers and trebs, secure the outposts and try to get aod.

Gandalf should be running around the map all while blasting any pike in sight. Keep a close eye out for lurtz, if you see a juicy combo by itself near an outpost, then its probably too good to be true, and chances are lurtz is hiding in the citadel.

Gondor has a really strong lategame if you can reach that far, boasting the best powers and hero in the game, Eagles can remove lurtz from the equation, which leaves Gandalf on janitor duty. Rohirrim summon can be used for base rushes, or to take down any ballista/bomb isen wants to throw at you. Then you have the crème de la crème AOD, which can be used to save your base from the balrog, or win you the game by placing it ontop of the isengard army/ in his base to end.
With marketplace and outpost(s) you should be able to rebuy the base, should isengard Rog it.


But chances are your start/mid game wasn't the best, and you maybe just barely got gandalf and 3 horses + boromir out, when isen is already sieging you, or is about to. Then its crucial you delay him by any means necessary. Try to kill as many pikes as you can on the oposite side of the map, whilst constantly keeping an eye on his main army, try to snipe ballistas with horses, without losing them. If he already has Saruman+ lurtz and multiple combos+ wargs, its very difficult to defend without eagles.

In conclusion, the mu is highly dependant on your start, especially as Gondor. Isengard can still do well after a mediocre/even bad start. As mid game is all isen. Lategame also depends a lot on situation, what both players have currently, but I have listed what I think are the main things to consider, as Gondor anyway.


I look forward to reading your comments, and hope we can keep the discussion going!





















Posts: 3,019

Game: Battle for Middle Earth


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# 3LATINO Sep 4 2021, 22:24 PM
Nice post smile.gif

QUOTE(Dunedain` @ Sep 3 2021, 18:07 PM) *

Hi, since the forums are pretty inactive, I will share some tips and tricks for the matchup Gondor vs Isengard. Playing as Gondor, specifically on patch 1.09.

So as most of you probably know, if you read the changelog, Both armies received more than a few changes. Some of which helped Gondor, while others helped Isengard aswell.

I will first list the most important changes to each army in this particular matchup, then further explain how they affect each part of the game, from early to late game.
Gondor Positive Changes thumb.gif


Elven wood armor boost 45% from 40%. Pretty big change, has a noticeable effect on the entire game, more on this later.

Knights buff vs pikes, great buff for Gondor, and can be the difference between winning or lose a close fight.

Shields cost reduction, great for base rushing, fighting wargs, etc.

Boromir, cost reduction, buffs in both attack+movement speed, aswell as more leadership and more.

Gandalf, no longer need white pp for him to be able to leave the base, even more useful than before as white.

Marketplace, great help for Gondor lategame, really evens the scale when Isen inevitably reaches 6pp for FtF.

Gondor Negative Changes post-13661-1143531603.gif


Uppgrades are more costly. Probably the most significant nerf to Gondor, and in this matchup where resources can be scarce on some maps, its really noticeable.

Trebuchets, damage nerf, fire uppgrades more costly, slower to get many of them, you need more time for them if you want to go this route.

Outposts, cost more, much easier to destroy, especially for wargs, you have to be a lot more careful when securing them, make sure you let it built to 100% before you garrison them.
Isengard Positive Changes thumb.gif


Warchant recharges faster, pretty self explanatory.

Slaugther houses, really useful early game, not so much mid/late game.

Saruman, again pretty obvious why he's on this list.
Isengard Negative Changes post-13661-1143531603.gif


Lurtz Lurtz armor got a big nerf. He dies a lot quicker to cavalry now, and Gandalf can pretty much one shot him with Istari no matter what level Lurtz is.

As you can see the lists are quite short, and that is because this matchup didn't change a whole lot. But the few changes makes for more variety and interesting strats being available.
Early Game


Okay so first and foremost, this is not a guide by any means, just some tips for playing this hard matchup as Gondor.
A big tip I can give is to vary your starts. You have a great advantage early on, having that strong land, so use it!
Sending 2 soldiers along the top is pretty standard, but a good Isengard can defend against this, and at best you end up with 0,5 pp with both your farms down and or half the creeps gone, before your first horse is out.
A great start with Gondor can secure you the game, then and there. But this is all easier said than done.

Barrack Start

Very risky, but high risk can also come with high reward, and so is the case here. Rax start was already a thing in 1.06, but with soldiers being slightly cheaper, and land being stronger, its even better on 1.09.

Regardless of what start you choose, your end goal should be to gather as many pp's as possible, or try to hurt Isengards economy.
Mid Game


Horses are pretty much used just like in 1.06, creep, get mc, and so forth. But in 1.09 there are some things to consider. If your start was not great, i.e you only crept 2-3 wargs, and are pretty far from elves, it may be smart to go for something other than uppgrades, since they are expensive. Such as early boromir. Boromir is great in 1.09, as he does a lot of damage to pikes, but also forces Isengard to constantly keep a watch on the pikes that are being chased, and eventually he has to buy lurtz. This gives you a window of opportunity to take fights with pikes, with some nice land placements you can get that last bit of pp for elves and fight for mc again. Boromir's horn on level 3 is also great when base rushing, as any new pike comming out of the pit, and any other unranked pike in the base are all effected by its stun.

If your start was good, then proceed as you normally would, I recommend blades first, as you will have lands on more than one location anyway, and the horses should get banners from creeps anyway.
Just remember a lvl 2 horse on land, even without blades, beats a lvl 1 pike, wheres a lvl 1 horse with blade on land will lose to that same pike. So choose your fights wisely. Boromir can be used even after a good start instead of uppgrades first, or even in conjunction with uppgrades, depending on how great your eco is.
Lategame


Ideally in lategame you should have 2-3 high ranked horses, elves, Boromir, and maybe even Gandalf.
If Isen isn't already sieging you, then you should get marketplace asap, as you won't win against a pro isengard without it, simple as. Get mp and all uppgrades, delete it, and then start pumping out rangers and trebs, secure the outposts and try to get aod.

Gandalf should be running around the map all while blasting any pike in sight. Keep a close eye out for lurtz, if you see a juicy combo by itself near an outpost, then its probably too good to be true, and chances are lurtz is hiding in the citadel.

Gondor has a really strong lategame if you can reach that far, boasting the best powers and hero in the game, Eagles can remove lurtz from the equation, which leaves Gandalf on janitor duty. Rohirrim summon can be used for base rushes, or to take down any ballista/bomb isen wants to throw at you. Then you have the crème de la crème AOD, which can be used to save your base from the balrog, or win you the game by placing it ontop of the isengard army/ in his base to end.
With marketplace and outpost(s) you should be able to rebuy the base, should isengard Rog it.
But chances are your start/mid game wasn't the best, and you maybe just barely got gandalf and 3 horses + boromir out, when isen is already sieging you, or is about to. Then its crucial you delay him by any means necessary. Try to kill as many pikes as you can on the oposite side of the map, whilst constantly keeping an eye on his main army, try to snipe ballistas with horses, without losing them. If he already has Saruman+ lurtz and multiple combos+ wargs, its very difficult to defend without eagles.

In conclusion, the mu is highly dependant on your start, especially as Gondor. Isengard can still do well after a mediocre/even bad start. As mid game is all isen. Lategame also depends a lot on situation, what both players have currently, but I have listed what I think are the main things to consider, as Gondor anyway.
I look forward to reading your comments, and hope we can keep the discussion going!



Posts: 3,694

Clan: LeGenD`

Game: Battle for Middle Earth


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# 4Beterwel Sep 5 2021, 07:40 AM
Nice explanation of the changes and how they affect the mu! Thanks bongashi

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Game: Battle for Middle Earth


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