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Command and Conquer 4

Incia/Converse & Kain_88 and Aythreuk

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# 21zebrastripes Jul 4 2011, 00:29 AM
QUOTE(Incia @ Jul 3 2011, 19:25 PM) *

I went offline from GR right when I wrote that >_> I was just now online 02:00am here, but didn't see you (2 hours late).

And as it's super late here, I'll check your replays tomorrow. smile.gif

PS: Tib spawn grabbing is one of the things I hate most in the world. if the other guy clicks the tib 0.1sec faster then usually he wins. And you always need an ally with you if the opponent is also going 2. 1vs2 in Tib grabbing is mostly suicide.

Hey I did that against you today! biggrin.gif hahah
Hope to see you in game CO, to see how nooby/pro you really are wink.gif

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# 22Kain_88 Jul 4 2011, 01:00 AM
i might play cnc4 at night gmt london time zone

Posts: 16


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# 23Doctor Müller Jul 4 2011, 20:04 PM
Ok so I noticed this:
There are normal people whom I can beat and there are organised teams that make my PUGs piss their pants which is rather annoying. Also annoying: when a team doesn't secure the single key points some maps have (bridges to nowhere, Frigid highlands)

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# 24Incia Jul 5 2011, 03:34 AM
Yes, stacking, if you have 4 random noobs then you have to be fricking awesome to actually win a clan.

Have you played HoN? Cause I see strong similarities. Imagine having 4 retards in your team, picking the worlds most useless Heroes in game, and you are the Carry. Then you face a clan of 5 guys with mic etc.

I can almost guarantee that even the worlds best player as that particular carry, will lose.

This is a teamgame so if you play 5vs5, have at least 1-2 friends with you.

Or 2vs2 with a friend, or 3vs3 with a friend. I think 2 good players can kill 3-5 noobs fairly easily though. But alone... hardly.

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# 25Incia Jul 10 2011, 05:29 AM
Captain Obvious sorry som fan.

But, I have been busy with other stuff this week... I did download those Replays, but, analyzing is actually tough, so instead I watched some new 'cool' replays while I had my snack, so totally forgot to watch your Replays.
I have also just reinstalled, finished, harvested all bags in Mirror's Edge, so that took me 2 days. And also updating stuff on the Strategy Room.

And I'm planning to go to Finland soon, should be there next week to be honest, as one person has a birthday next week there, would be bad to go there right after the birthday. But then again it's already Sunday, might be too late to get an air-ticket for next week relatively cheap, so will have to look for that soon.

Anyways... I try to analyze your Replays when I have time.
And why not analyze now you may ask? Well I just did an all-nighter playing Mirror's Edge and I feel a bit retarded now. I don't trust my analyzing eyes right now.

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# 26Converse Jul 10 2011, 12:59 PM
Okok, i'm returned, i see your replays now

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# 27Converse Jul 12 2011, 09:31 AM
I have seen your replays, i will wrote down the major mistakes that you do, for improving them.

First Replay:

You started with offence in north, and you build 2 bulldogs and deploy your crawler in a not tatical zone. You need to get a node with the crawler, the node 2 was really near to you, so you need to deploy in the capturing area and get it. Then you send some units to the northest node and get the green tib. After secured the green, you need to pack up your crawler and get/watch out a node or a tib drop.

I saw that your teamates were in difficulty in south, and the node 4 wasnt captured for half of game. You MUST get it for have the node majority and start the get points for win the game.

I must say that you have a good tibbin, when the green came down, you grad it and secured it.

At half game you spammed Titans, and i dont know if they are usefull, but i hate them.
You need to spam hunters for deal your enemy, and in no time he take out your units. spamming titans, you kept shooting for 3 minutes to 4 marauders, and at least with 20 titans you killed them.

Good use of the command's demolition kit, and try to micro your units and improve your macro.

Dont forget that the laser units can shoot through the units, giving them an little damage. So, shoot to the farest unit and deal all enemy units.. A pretty usefull trick to deal a spam.

Another time, against Tyrants you need hunters, not titans, and in fact in no time he killed all your army and he was near to kill your crawler..

At the end of game your opponent had some Avatars on the field, you need laser units to deal them, but i'd spammed an upgraded refractor to rebound them they shots and damage them.


Second Replay:

You started with offence, and build 2 bulldogs and get the blue. Good thing, but you BLOW it. Why?? You got a mega engi spam round you, and the avenger who was facing you were near to be destroyed.. Try to secure it, and if there arent other choise blow it..

Same thing of the replay 1, you spammed titans...I hate them.. There was a really huge tank spam on the field and they killed your entire army in no time, sadly.

I must say good tibwork, you get all the left green, really good.

When you lost all your titans, you destroyed your offence crawler to switch to defence one, and at TIER 3 you spammed Zone Troopers. Why?? You got tier 3, and there are lots of strong units that can deal a tank spam, like the Juggernaut. With 5 Juggernaut you could destroy that spam in few shots, but with the zone troopers they got the clearing way, and kill another time your entire army, and your crawler. i suggest you to keep in reserve always a cristal shield, and trap your crawler if you are in difficulty. While your crawler is trapping, you must dismantle it, for dont give precious points to the enemy.

Against spectre spam you need 3 things:
- Lots of hunters,
- Some units with stealth detection
- And a good micro with your heling units.


Btw after this mistakes, well done, you can do it better, and improve your skills.

Go and learn wink.gif

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Game: Command and Conquer 4


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# 28Doctor Müller Jul 13 2011, 18:19 PM
Thanks converse, in the meantime I've played quite some games with awesome players (including you) which has learned me quite a lot so I make better unit choices now. I wouldn't say these replays are representative anymore.

Thanks for the tip on lasers shooting through units and the tips vs spectre spam, that remains a hard one to handle.

I always have a hard time choosing units when I'm on the defence class on higher tiers. The units are very heavy on CP (rhino and armadillo) and seem limited in use meanwhile the lower tier ungarrisoned infantry get killed by blast units.

I'll practice some more and upload another replay when needed wink.gif

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# 29Incia Jul 13 2011, 18:45 PM
Captain Obvious
If you think these old replays don't show much anymore, could you please provide some new replays then?

I will go to Finland NEXT week, on Wednesday, so before that, I can still try to coach a bit. But would feel bad to criticize the old replays now that I'm not so busy anymore.

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Game: Command and Conquer 4


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# 30Converse Jul 13 2011, 20:19 PM
QUOTE(Captain Obvious @ Jul 13 2011, 20:19 PM) *

Thanks converse, in the meantime I've played quite some games with awesome players (including you)

Awesome me? Omg i suck maan!

What about the tier 3 defence class..
You have to see what units are on the field.. I would spam at least a Zone Capitain (he is so strong) and some Juggernaut. The emp from captain is always usefull and the jygger's mines too. Dont forget the lovely cristal shield, it is sooooooooo usefull.

For NOD you got also lot of usefull units at t3, high confessors spam is great against paladins that are killing basilisk, or agaist kodiaks.. Normally i keep the reaper spam into t3, they can killed everybody if well protected. Another tip is use the second ability of the nod shield for have a stealthed defensive crawler smile.gif

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# 31Doctor Müller Jul 14 2011, 22:35 PM
Lets post a losing replay then.


Attached File(s)
Attached File replay6.CnC4Replay
Size: 1.9mb
Number of downloads: 97
Player Name Side Team

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Game: StarCraft 2


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# 32Incia Jul 15 2011, 06:01 AM
I hope you played as Support, so I can comment on this one. ^^

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# 33Seargant Jul 15 2011, 09:09 AM
QUOTE(Captain Obvious @ Jul 15 2011, 00:35 AM) *

Lets post a losing replay then.

I hope it wasnt our game on Jaded vs fusty n Co. since I was terrible that game wink.gif Too tired to even pick up tib. Btw Fustys team is great and it usually takes a full NTS squad to standa chance of beating them. Just saying dont beat yourself up for losing to them

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# 34Incia Jul 15 2011, 10:36 AM
So you are ControlAltTheLEET, I've see you first of all in my friendslist, but you haven't been online for a year or so. tongue.gif

Okay, you start off as Defense, not sure if I should comment this though, but I'll try.

I saw that you did the 'put on hold' and so on be able to build 2 buildings at the same time, this is a good move, but I think you can do it a bit closer to the finishing mark too. It's a bit risky but you save 1 or 2 seconds there.

Also epic Tib detonation from Nod, stole your green Tib, blew it up to destroy itself and also an Engineer carrying a Blue Tib. You lost 3 Upgrade Points right there. Focus more on the Tib early game, the unit spam is more of a distraction, try to catch the Tib crystals, first priority.
When you saw the Raider Buggy with the Green Tib your whole army should have attacked and destroyed it.

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You seem to not be microing your Spartan Tanks, I think Spartans have a fairly long Range from basic units, you sohuld constantly Reverse-move them back and forth, and absolutely not get killed my Ironbacks who are melee units.
You also have 3 Green Crates scattered round your units, try to capture these, they will instantly give your units veterancy level. I saw Zebra just stealing the Crates with her Scrapbuss, that was a painful move.

Later on when you are alone, you can easily Dismantle your Spartan Turret to get another easy access Green Crate, and further promote your units.

5 normal Spartan Tanks are actually pretty shitty, but 5 Heroic Spartan Tanks can actually do some damage though.

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However, Spartan Cannons actually give no VP to the enemy, only 'penalty' from Spartan Cannons death are 'no crates'. So when your opponent is steamrolling you then you should just leave the turrets there, let them kill them while you retreat with your other units.
BUT Guardian Cannons and other Base Defenses, always Dismantle them when they are about to get destroyed, otherwise you'll just feed 6 VP to the enemy. This is tricky if you are microing your other army but, it's always a high priority to try to dismantle turrets, they are really easy targets for big armies.

Now Nod double teamed on you, cobras + venoms, and ground units all towards you. Dismantle turrets and run away, maybe even try to Decommission your Crawler by hitting delete, if you hit delete soon enough it will decommission in time. if you are too late then let it just die. Decommissioned units that are destroyed give double VP to the enemy.

Especially when you lose your Crawler, dismantle all damaged turrets, unpowered turrets have basically no use whatsoever, only as meatshield but if they are overwhelmed they will die in a second anyway, so not much for a meatshield.

Oh, btw, just put on the name tags, you actually got 3 teamed, poor you. 3vs1 = Decommission, and wait to respawn.
This is pretty bad, considering Nod only had 4 Players, and 3 of them took down you alone.
I wonder what your 4 other teammates did here. As Nod have 4 Nodes here......................................

(Celticar should move his Crawler closer to middle to actually capture it, it's neutral and there's zero Nod Players near it, free to take Node)

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And that upgraded Nod Commando is just seriously retarded, I'm 100 % that's not intentional but a stupid exploit. Stop abusing it, I have started seeing it exploited in every single new replay nowdays. Nod Commando is shooting a flying Support Crawler ACROSS the WHOLE map, the laser also harm all the Spawn Turrets in the way. >_>

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Lovely, really liked that you consturcted all those turrets while waiting for respawn, a lot of Players usually forget this. Also 4 Focus Beams destroying MO Crawler while it tried to decommission, lovely 100VP there. smile.gif

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But Engy spam? Eeeew this is so last year. tongue.gif

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Oh, right, focus beams also use the laser weaponry, so it damages everything on its path. When you faced that huge Avenger spam then try to manually target the last tank with your turrets, then the laser will damage all of the tanks, slowly.

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1 Guardian turret in the mix of hundreds of focus beams are actually good, not because they damage medium ground with a lousy slow shut, but because they give a slow debuff. When you have those 5 focus beams shooting everything then you can 'manually' micro this lonely guardian turret to shoot all the individual enemy units just to give them the slow debuff. Like on this scenario you got 2-3 Marauder tanks into your engy spam, 1 Guardian turret shooting and slowing them would have been helpful.

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You start training zone troopers, AFTER the marauders died and retreated? ohmy.gif
And now you are getting bombarded by Leviathan balls of fire.

I would have made a unit change here, by start spamming Zone Raiders instead. With them you could cliffjump and kill the Leviathans by using micro.

Also, by now you took back the territory, you got the Node and Uplink... now take 1 of your Engineers and capture the Blue Tiberium, that's what you fought for in the fist place? Now take it. smile.gif


........? The Blue got stolen by evil Nod sad.gif

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Zebrastripes has 2 Scrapbusses? Xiitter!!!!! ohmy.gif

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Nod have much more superior team fight, you got raped 3vs1 again.

Not much to comment on to be honest... you just need help from friends here, nobody can kill 1vs3.

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Gah, not sure if I need to really comment further, now GDI have 2 disconnects and Nod 1 disconnect, and seems nobody is playing seriously anymore.
Even a Nod damaged Engineer (HP on red, 1 tank shell would have killed it) safely took a Green Tib back home through a GDI army sleep.gif

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Last comments, finally GDI got team play but a liiiiittle bit too late. Paladin spam with Hunter spam, roaming down Nod. This was an excellent move. I also liked your Offense army, 1 Bulldog for stealth detection + hunter spam for stealth tanks and specters, this worked wonders. Maybe you should have changed to Offense earlier.

Last Tip, play WITH Zebra, not against her.

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Game: Command and Conquer 4


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# 35Doctor Müller Jul 15 2011, 18:03 PM
I opened defence because I feel this map has 2 area's of major importance you can't really walk around where a defence player can give some good advantage.

I usually keep the spartan tanks close so they aren't out of range when they turn into turrets I don't micro them like hunters but micro is probably a better idea than letting them do random shit..

All of the other control stuff is just something that'll come with more practice. The troopers got cued before the leviathans came in the picture but I just didn't lose units before that so they were suddenly build then.

I'll just play some more with your tips in mind smile.gif

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# 36Converse Jul 15 2011, 18:11 PM
Agree all with Incia, well comment smile.gif

I must say well done yesterday, in that game you played very well but FIMZ got a beautiful macro and they won another time.

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Game: Command and Conquer 4


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# 37Incia Jul 15 2011, 21:56 PM
If you would had Tier 3, then I guess you could had built those Crystal Shields, frozen your Crawler and the Node. This would give you some extra invulnerable seconds. I mean its a big time waste for Nod if they gang 80 % of their units against you alone, and then with crystal shields you just make yourself invulnerable, then Nod have to waste time waiting for you and HOPEFULLY your teammates will take back all the unguarded Nodes while you fend off the 80 % of the Nod arsenal.

And then if you notice you can't even keep up with the crystal shields anymore then do one last stasis field freeze and decommission your Crawler. smile.gif

In a team game if 3 players go for a steamroll on 1 player then just yell in the mic or write in the chat something like "it's 3vs1 here, go take the unguarded nodes while I keep them busy".

Because one thing that I hate is me fighting 2 Crawlers or even 3 Crawlers for 30min and then find out later on that my stupid teammates just were afk and chilling 'outside' of the Node capture rings all those 30min.
Which happened like half a year ago. I was Defense and kept 3 GDI busy in the middle, by spamming flame columns and reapers. My 4 teammates didn't capture 1 single Node during the hectic 10-15 minutes I had my fight......... don't remember if we eventually won that game or not but, it was frustrating.
If we would have got the 4 Nodes, then 4 Node domination + 15 minute is a shitload of free VP.

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Game: Command and Conquer 4


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# 38J.E.T~Storm~ Oct 22 2012, 16:57 PM
QUOTE(Incia @ Jul 10 2011, 05:29 AM) *

Captain Obvious sorry som fan.

But, I have been busy with other stuff this week... I did download those Replays, but, analyzing is actually tough, so instead I watched some new 'cool' replays while I had my snack, so totally forgot to watch your Replays.
I have also just reinstalled, finished, harvested all bags in Mirror's Edge, so that took me 2 days. And also updating stuff on the Strategy Room.

And I'm planning to go to Finland soon, should be there next week to be honest, as one person has a birthday next week there, would be bad to go there right after the birthday. But then again it's already Sunday, might be too late to get an air-ticket for next week relatively cheap, so will have to look for that soon.

Anyways... I try to analyze your Replays when I have time.
And why not analyze now you may ask? Well I just did an all-nighter playing Mirror's Edge and I feel a bit retarded now. I don't trust my analyzing eyes right now.


"Retarded" is not a very nice word to use so sparingly.

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# 39Incia Oct 22 2012, 22:51 PM
Bumping an over year old topic is not appreciated either.

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