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Rise of the Witch King

Bushit | Toadwing, Velamar, Gratbot, Diazon

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# 21bushit Dec 9 2017, 01:44 AM
QUOTE(Gratbot @ Dec 8 2017, 17:54 PM) *

Another game for you to look at.

Firstly I'll just say that Angmar are my least favourite faction so I'm glad I had a really tough game and got to know them a bit better.

OK - Angmar vs Dwarf (and Men on the side)

    Angmar vs Dwarf can be interesting! Early game can be a struggle because of how weak Thralls are. But You have some strengths you should take advantage of.

    1. Speed - Dwarves are slow. They cannot defend farms easily or chase down your units without axes or wagons. So, you can annoy them with fast control. Have units running around avoiding dwarf units and killing farms. If unit hops out of mine to attack and they will kill your units, run your units away and come back later. The more the dwarf is distracted chasing you or defending, the less he has to attack you with, so it's very helpful.

    2. Axethrowers - Don't lose these, keep them behind a meatshield of orcs or pikes. If you keep them alive, eventually you will have mass axes to help with any push.

    3. Thrall Masters - Thrall master unit itself has decent HP. If a battalion is low, send them back to your base or behind fort to regenerate the entire battalion instead of losing 200 resources.

    4. Heroes - Heroes always tend to be useful vs Dwarves. Cuz dwarf fat.

  • Don't waste units attacking the Dwarves Bulky Hall of Warriors, go for the farms! The reason early game became difficult was because you lost many units in that attack and the dwarf did not - so his counter attack was powerful.
  • Why did you get so many rhudaur pikes? They're extra bad without Hwaldar, don't get em unless you need vs cav or some unit like lings.
  • To take advantage of your speed, you can spread your units around, attack from different angles, or maybe one unit per enemy farm (instead of yuge clump on one), and just run around to force dwarf to split up
  • since you know dwarf armies will generally be stronger early game, avoid fighting them directly until you have to (when they're in your base destroying stuff or when you can just overpower them)
  • Morgomir is a good choice - especially because of his debuff AND his buff at lv 7 - effecting HIMSELF and Numenors/Rangers. Numenors are a good way to strengthen your armies, and will do very well vs Guardians, you can even be silly and rush them if you want - that is risky but at least it's unique.
  • Hwaldar is good too because your axethrowers can then earn money. His summon hillmen can trap Wagons or heroes.

    ::For Next Game::
  • Don't sacrifice units vs a tough target! It's better for you to destroy farms then try to take down 1 (of 2) barracks. Especially vs dwarf!
  • Use war chant on larger army, not a dying few battalions!
  • Spread units around and attack from different sides. (Don't go down the most direct lane).

Check out some of these Angmar vs Dwarf replays, maybe they can give perspective! Note, two are on the old 5.0.1 version, so you must open the switcher and select 2.02 5.0.1 to view it. The other is on v7.




Posts: 10,223

Clan: GoF|

Game: Rise of the Witch King

# 22bushit Dec 15 2017, 14:44 PM
Gratbot will you be on today or this weekend?

Posts: 10,223

Clan: GoF|

Game: Rise of the Witch King

# 23Diazon Dec 30 2017, 21:02 PM
I literally forgot what this replay was,but I played it today.

Attached File(s)
Attached File Replay_1.BfME2Replay
Size: 99.24k
Number of downloads: 5
Player Name Side Team
Poero 3
Lpxatreyu 1
Diazon* 1
blade 3

Posts: 4

# 24bushit Dec 30 2017, 21:46 PM
QUOTE(Diazon @ Dec 30 2017, 16:02 PM) *

I literally forgot what this replay was,but I played it today.

Men vs Goblins! This can be a fun mu, I want to show you a real interesting build order you can do as Men. I'll pm it on gameranger or send you a replay of it.

But as you did, the standard is rax (barracks) and fast range off 3 farms, which is fine and useful vs goblins. That is a safe start.

One thing to note is how to play vs a spiderlings start, and it involves knowing ling strength and weaknesses. Basically they are good for 2 things: vs swords and their speed for vs farms / builders. They aren't good vs army if that army has archers or pikes. So, to counter lings, all you need to do is adopt a defensive early game to defend your first 3 farms, and once you are full CP (command point) or near to, you push the goblin base with archer and pike and sword. Build additional farms nearer to your advancing army.

Spiderling start weaknesses you want to take advantage of

  • ling start depends on early farm kills, if you defend well, lings become a rather useless addition to goblin army early game, and your army will simply overpower the goblin army when you push full force, since they invested in lings.
  • lings depend on flanking or you having a fractured / misplaced army, so they can pick off straggling archers or swords or undefended farms, but vs archers/pike/toughcavarly head on, they have to flee and avoid archers.
  • many players instinctively rush nearly all the time because it's the normal thing to do, and learning defensive positioning is not, that's why some players have trouble vs lings

How to defend farms especially early game

You don't defend merely by not rushing enemy base or chasing any enemy units you see wherever they go. Defending is about unit positioning and defending what's important: farms.
  • Place units in battle stance near your farms, (archers in aggressive is fine i believe), At any farm you can. That way, lings cannot damage the farm without killing a unit. Even if 1 battalion of swords are defending a farm, lings have to sacrifice time to kill them, and by then you can move archers (that are supposedly defending another farm) to support or scare off lings.

    Why Battle Stance To Defend Farms? It saves you micro effort. Unlike other stances, units will autoacquire nearby enemies AND ALSO autoreturn to their selected position once enemies go out of range. In Aggressive, they would just chase, and enemy can go around them or send another unit to go for farm. In Defensive, they may not even attack enemies.
  • This will avoid what happened to you this game: your units were somewhere else, distracted by lings or gobs, while others went for your farm. Prevent this by positioning defensive units and only diverting units necessary (not overkill, lings and gobs are weak compared to you).
  • Note that goblins want to distract and split your army up by attacking multiple angles and finding weak points. But in the early game while you have 3-4 farms, you basically chose where they will battle, because there are only 3-4 possibilities (your farms). Later, you will create a new forced battle: your large, clumped, rally called archer/pike/sword army, in their base.
In this game you didn't get to harass, lost too many farms, and thus didn't make a large enough army. Goblin economy was mostly untouched and able to pump out large spam.

Things to go for:

1. Theoden - Earlyish game hero, for leadership to stack with rally call. Very tanky units gobs will have a problem with if they don't use Crebain.

2. Statues - early! bring a builder with your army and make statues. You can camp enemy goblin caves with this. But Poero built his caves behind his fort, making such an advance for difficult to pull off.

3. Keep up a large spam. Fire arrows will make archers useful vs weak goblin structures, upgraded rohirrim will chase down Giants / Spiders / Heroes.


This post has been edited by bushit: Dec 30 2017, 22:10 PM

Posts: 10,223

Clan: GoF|

Game: Rise of the Witch King

# 25Diazon Dec 31 2017, 13:47 PM
Fresh isen vs dwarf game. I loved this one.

Attached File(s)
Attached File isenvdwarf.BfME2Replay
Size: 309.72k
Number of downloads: 5
Player Name Side Team
TheEternal 2
Diazon* 1
Olumba 1
Gino 2

Posts: 4

# 26bushit Dec 31 2017, 19:44 PM
hm your opponent, Gino, wasn't really good so I can't give normal advice, he didn't really punish you for any mistakes. But one thing I would say he did well enough - he made more farms! You stayed on 2 and then 3 farms for too long, such a weak economy and low max CP will not benefit you much. You can build more farms sooner, especially in this game if an enemy is not aggressive (he build tower, only rushed with 2 first units)

You had 1 clan steading, 2 uruk pits, a warg pit, and an armory - to support all of those or use them efficiently, you need a larger economy than 3 farms and 1 lumber mill before getting most of that. For example you built an armory but didn't have enough money to get upgrades yet, so use that money on farms or a hero.

Instead of staying on 2 farms like you did, try staying on 4-5 farms, that's generally a decent amount to support a fine army and a few production buildings. But you will find some players spam farms almost relentlessly - all game, as fast as they can build them. You built 5 farms eventually, but too slowly.

Berkserkers are a great choice vs dwarf, good thinking to go for them. Splash damage (so good for attacking dwarf mineshafts or goblin tunnels) and hard to individually target, while also naturally dodging a high % of arrows.

You won that game because even though Gino, the Dwarf, had a better economy and higher max CP, he never built a large army, didn't use his resources (he cashfloated a lot), let his Brand die, or fought battles that he would lose or barely win (sending weak armies vs your large ones). He also chose Rebuild as his first power and never used it early game for himself or his ally, not a very useful choice.

One thing vs a Dwarf

Dwarves have strong but slow units, so they naturally benefit from any narrow spaces - they can push through weaker armies there and slowly advance, their lack of speed isn't that huge a factor, only their health and damage. So try to send 1-2 units another direction (or many) to go for dwarf mineshafts. This will force the dwarf to move units to defend and you will mostly likely weaken his economy. Most of the time you kept all your units together, which is what a dwarf likes. As dwarf it's just a pain to defend many farms at once because: a) they're slow; b) they aren't really a "spam" faction


This post has been edited by bushit: Dec 31 2017, 19:54 PM

Posts: 10,223

Clan: GoF|

Game: Rise of the Witch King


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