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How do I counter mainly PE Vehicles?

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# 1Prill Nov 11 2020, 02:00 AM
I ran into a problem where PE kited my airborne and it became a turtlefest (I'm ?..?..?). I know I shouldn't run infantry against vehicles, and typically don't, but I didn't see how tanks could have worked in this situation. If this forum still has any eyes on it could someone give me some advice?

If you don't want to watch a replay here's a summary. Enemy made 2 ACs, ATHT, 2 mortar HT, and then 2 panthers. He'd kite all my units at max range. He kept the panthers forward to soak up the initial blows and as my airborne are reloading he'd move up his AC's and shoot max range while his mortars kill my AT guns rinse and repeat.

This strategy is annoying because the game takes forever. I'm sure my macro is off somewhere. If there is a way to cut it short without suicidal charges I'm all ears. And if the answer is a suicidal charge then I guess today is a good day to die!

Dunno how to beat this \_(ツ)_/


This post has been edited by Prill: Nov 11 2020, 19:52 PM

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jeep deployed!!! 2

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# 2PathFINDER_1927 Nov 14 2020, 03:14 AM
Do not open with WSC on an open map like Langres, with no building covering strategic points and VPs. Or at least send your mg in your village to protect your cut off. Start with a jeep (to chase kettenkrads, fight PGs/Recon cars and reveal eventual vampires), riflemen x2 (2 is enough to fix and flank). Recon his base with your jeep. But 4 riflemen vs PE is kind of useless. They're too slow to chase kettens, they won't be able to really take advantage vs a PG spam, and they will be powerless vs PE light vehicles. Also never go airborne and reveal it early with paratroopers, if it's not to wreck the base of your opponent with the support of an AT gun, and at least 1 sniper/mg. Defensively this is useless, it has a huge manpower cost, it needs grenades to deal with infantry, its 125 ammo AT is really poor vs light vehicles and your opponent will know your doc, this is an opportunity for blitz/pumas/ostwinds or luft/ACs/wirbelwinds/flaks. This is the best way to lose the game, especially vs PE which can field very early ACs and wirbelwinds.

-If you see a lot of PGs (4/5), especially when equipped with G43s, go T2 and support your riflemen with MGs/mortars/snipers to avoid losing your manpower and drain his manpower. This is little fuel and time invested to save you a lot of manpower due to constant engagement of 4 riflemen with deadly PGs. Meanwhile it delays his tech with 45 reinforcement cost, while you are still open to anything. Logically mortar and scorched earth in perspective, to be able to build green covers, supress you and use indirect fire, while denying you territory he can't hold.
-If you don't see anything but one PG and a ketten on the field (and T2,T3 without T2 units), he is probably going for fast ACs, which is really bad in 1v1 because it can't be supported by a PaK. OP a fuel point, defend your cut off and go for fast M8 x2. At the point where his ATHT is out, your 2 M8s can easily destroy it and rule the field for a long time. Go armor doctrine, raid, M10 spam and the game is won.
-If you see 2 infantry half-tracks, mines, stickies and flamers should do the job first. It might be a luft doctrine (mechanized infantry, mid inf/tanks, both defensive and aggressive) properly executed, so T3 and MP44s, 1 AC, ATHT, schrecks should be the next step. This is the speciality of PE, so do not go airborne, his air doctrine is superior to yours in open ground, your paratroopers will be decimated by ACs and MP44s and your strafing runs will be useless vs half-tracks, ACs and flaks. Go stickies, T2, MGs to protect your riflemen and damage his half-tracks and flamers to burn his PGs while they are in the half-track. Just wait and see. Mines, stickies, MGs with armor piercing burst and flamers should counter his agressiveness. You are doing well and have destroyed his half-tracks early ? You might go for 2 M8s, like for fast ACs. He has only anti-inf, marders are expensive and too slow for your M8s, schreck too imprecise at long range. You are doing bad ? Go for 2 AT guns, supported by your MG(s), you don't even need BARs. Stay defensive. As the game will last and he will be granted henschels and flaks, infantry doctrine is the way to go. Not too bad ? 1 M8 1 AT gun.
-If you see a lot of scout cars, securing fuel points, he might go for fast panzer IV and tank hunters. Stickies and air doctrine sounds good to me, as it provides you AT infantry which can reinforce on the field and AT guns without T3 so you can get supply yard upgrades, and a good opportunity to base rush him with a sniper if you manage to destroy his scout cars.

Also note that jeeps are really annoying for a PE player early game if he does not have scout cars, so 2 or more of them could be a good idea in combination with the raid ability of the armor company.
Also note that I m speaking for this map in particular, which is mostly an open map, which is different of a close map like a city, where you will rely more on infantry and where U.S. air doctrine is superior.

In a few words, just recon and adapt to what he is doing, this is a mobile defense faction, relying on counter attacks, so the worst thing you can do vs a good player is to send him waves of riflemen/paratroopers without support. Basically 1 jeep + 2 riflemen with stickies + 2 MGs opening should give you a good base to defend your cut off efficiently whatever you are facing. Then depending on your opponent build you can deploy more units or tech up. Just skip T2 and go directly for OP on fuel and M8s if you see with your jeep(s) that he is going for a very fast T3 to get an AC out at 6 min. If you're struggling in the early game go for infantry doctrine. With MGs, AT guns and a quad half-track. Fast deployment, the ability for your riflemen to build mines, tank traps, artillery and rangers will give you both defensive and offensive capabilities so you can take the advantage.

This post has been edited by PathFINDER_1927: Nov 14 2020, 17:04 PM

Posts: 35

# 3miegorengwithprawns Jan 20 2021, 00:04 AM
QUOTE(Prill @ Nov 11 2020, 12:00 PM) *

I ran into a problem where PE kited my airborne and it became a turtlefest (I'm ?..?..?). I know I shouldn't run infantry against vehicles, and typically don't, but I didn't see how tanks could have worked in this situation. If this forum still has any eyes on it could someone give me some advice?

If you don't want to watch a replay here's a summary.

This strategy is annoying because the game takes forever. I'm sure my macro is off somewhere.

Watched your replay.

Firstly, a 'forever' game is good. That's what we play for isn't it? The fun in the challenge. Not stat whoring ten minute US 1v1 OP momentum exploitive rapefests.

Straightforward answer. IMV he just outplayed you by a mile. His micro was solid, absolutely critical now with always intensive individual micro rubbish manouvreability of PE vehicles exacerbated now by their expensiveness considering their tissue paper fragility and NERFED efficacy. MG HT doesn't suppress well any more and takes an hour to do so, un-upgraded rifle fire from a single US squad will kill any single unsupported AC. That's why everyone who uses them builds at least two. They aren't cheap, and a US M8 will dominate and destroy them. PE don't have the competitive momentum in 1v1. US do. PE take a long time to develop to anywhere near parity or gather momentum, and need sh1tloads of all 3 resources to do so. US don't.

Overall view. You made a serious strategic misplay. Your PE opponent read your play, and quickly capitalised on it. You gave him time and mobility instead of denying it, which is what PE need most.

Since the MEGA NERF of PE guised as the 'final patch' US are UBER OP in 1v1 vs PE. US have ALL the advantage. Exacerbating that in this instance is Langres, the most US advantageous of all those small 1v1 player maps. Lots of high fuels and a low fuel for each base for US to easily & rapidly cap and control, easy cutoffs to control, especially that one adjacent the sh1tty hugely disadvantageous base PE was in in this fight. This map facilitates US greatest advantages, mobility, x2 men per squad numerical superiority + 3 man 140MP engineers => firepower. Early and rapidly they can force PE to retreat, disperse to exploit their grossly imbalanced FREE from start x2 cap rate before reconcentrating their force as an unchallengeable BLOB all before PE can re-emerge to challenge.

Equal opponent for opponent, with making serious misplays or mistakes, PE can never win a US avoid and cap stalling to critical mass or overwhelming firepower superiority map plus quick M8 rapes all war on this map or Angoville. They are just US dominated maps perfectly suited to US ops and 1v1 OP. Blast 'nades, never miss uber ranged guided sticky bombs which insta-cripple ALL Axis vehicles leaving it stranded to be finished off by -pick one. Recoiless AT rifles, Ranger 'zookas, more stickies, AT gun , M8, M10 and even rifles in the case of light vehcles such as AT HT, Mortar HT, MG HT. AC, SC etc. It's beyond even a ridiculous joke now.

Compare that to PE's no range, keep still while I throw and always miss AT mine. LOL what a joke. How about BS US half hour all squad suppression vs PE's nerfed single squad millisecond of focus fire. So over US whingers who screwed the balance of this game. Or kill an entire squad in a throw US blast grenades vs poxy please stand, wait and die PE incendiary. Expensive and hard to develop availability Panthers easily crippled to a sitting target by a single never miss sticky with no ant-inf MG protection until they attain vet, no Nahverteidigungswaffe ever while M8s are still sports cars after three or four AT weapon hits. e.g. 'shrecks, which miss 60% of the time if the squad isn't vet. How's that for balanced?

You surrendered all of that when you went WSC -and on this map!???

US cap at X2 PE's rate. Yes double! They have 140MP 3 man engie squads that un-upgraded with flamers themselves, can operate independently vs kets and individual unupgraded PG squads which are so fragile now, lone Engies can challenge and win against causing both to have to retreat 3/4 of the way through slowly capping any point, a particularly galling and disadvantageous factor in any faction's development. And don;t get me started on the imbalance absurdity that is a 140MP 50MU flame upgraded 3 man engie squad vs even two 255MP 50MU G43 upgraded 3 man PGs now!

Later play was what it was. Once PE get a roll on, 4 man squads with G43s, 2/3 US cap rate upgraded, PIV, Panthers although still disadvantaged in so many respects, low acceleration and speed, poor manouvreability, no anti inf protection, crippled by a single sticky, PE aren't the easy meat pushover they are in early game and skillfully managed will cruel US. Just my observations YMMV.

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