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Piospam on Angoville

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# 1ElDuderiono Jun 26 2018, 22:55 PM
Please elaborate on how the hell am I supposed to counter PioSpam on Angoville as a Brit? I setup HQ on high muni point as Sepha suggest in his guide, only to see 6 pio squads facerushing me.
And even a more general question how am I supposed to play this map? Setup in the open on the left so I cannot control more the 1 VP? Or sit in hedgerows on the right so I cannot maneuvre?
I believe I have zero wins on this map, it's ridiculously terrible for brits.

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# 2piwawsky Jun 28 2018, 16:10 PM

I'm not home so currently I can't watch your replay but I feel I know what's going on.
With 6 pios you as brit, cannot out cap your opponent. Always go like that: built lt, he goes to cap on the right side (first +5 fuel then +10 then strat point, vp,...until you meet first pio. then put your LT in cover and you should win the fight), then move HQ (in meanwhile recon squad caps +16 munis left then goes to cap +16 fuel) and you park your hq on munis. After that build tommy and cap near strat point to connect the right side (what LT has capped). after that build BC. If he goes t1 (which wehr usually doesn't if he goes pio spam he usually goes straight to t2) upgrade your tommy with bren and put it in BC (Bren Carrier) and harrass enemy's volks, mgs and sniper. If not just upgrade your BC with bren. when you have your recon, another tommy, bc and lt go immediatly to your opponent's cut-off (strat point behind the hedge - north of his base) and camp there. It should be gg there cause he has no fuel/munis. If you don't win there, go to t2 (fst) and get sappers with piats and a stuart. Then adapt, you can go 105 howitzer or t3 (ast) for cromwells or fireflies if you see heavy armor.

If you have any more questions feel free to ask.

regards, piwawsky

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# 3ElDuderiono Jun 28 2018, 18:04 PM
Thanks for the reply.
Ok, I've just lost another game.
So I setup in the left (I spawn at the bottom), use your build, everything's cool: I have mortar, 2 brens, 3 tommies, LT. I go T2. I harass him with Stuart and remaining bren. but eventually lose them to paks, shreks, and fausts. My only AT is 17p.
To this point everything was well: I conrolled left, often capped right. In the last 5-7 mins he goes armour (2 ostwinds, 2 panthers, StuH) + he has paks, shreks, mines -> my armour is useless (im sitting on 700 fuel), it's gg (390 to 5)
By looking back at my game: I lost all light armour (2 brens and 2 stuarts), probably bad I had no 25p but I always was low on mp. But I don't see how would this helped me really, say, if I got stronger oponent. And with this overextension and cumbersome infantry.
Something similiar happened to me on Langres (420 to 17 loss). Where I was eventually steamrolled by PE with his huge blob and 2 panthers, when I had seemingly everything and controlled almost the whole map early-mid game.
And it happened before, Actually I just don't understand how can brits scale into late game with there unproportionate later tech.

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# 4piwawsky Jun 29 2018, 15:50 PM
yeah, I was talking for north spawn.
For south you do similar but you go cap right with your recon tommy and left with lt.
Point is you have to deny wehr player fuel. If you won't you will be facing vet 3 infantry and (vetted) tanks.
Vs t2 heavy play sadly your only way is to go arty doc.
25p is strong but very voulnerable to shrecks.
Priest is better but comes later in game. You must have some sort of arty vs his shrecks, paks, mgs, pios,...
Also with arty doctrine be aware that your officers (lt, cpt) have "insta arty" FOO (Forward Observation Officer?) and use that to your advantage when you attack.

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# 5miegorengwithprawns Jul 1 2018, 01:59 AM
QUOTE(ElDuderiono @ Jun 27 2018, 08:55 AM) *

I believe I have zero wins on this map, it's ridiculously terrible for brits.

I'll watch your replay before commenting further, but you're wrong.

Opening Piospam is a way to lose extra fast for Wehr against any competent Brit. If that's what is happening, you're not countering or aggressively denying with all the fast powerful anti-infantry firepower advantage Brits have in opening, especially vs just Pios. Going to watch your play.

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# 6miegorengwithprawns Jul 1 2018, 03:52 AM
Watched it.

A few things I observed.

1. "Tricky Bastard" hadn't won that game militarily at the time you rage quit. You lost it psychologically, 'surrendering' when your usual run rampant with the Stuart easy win strategy didn't effect that result tactically.

2. x6 pios isn't "piospam". On that map vs Brits where they can lock down the high fuel between the two flags, or muni, it's arguably necessary, just one strat and a good one which I use too. Pumping out between 5 and 6 pios immediately at opening to cap before he can field an effective immediate counter is the right number vs Brits because they develop so fast. No less, no more. "Piospam" is building nothing but, flaming and vetting them to Vet II fast early and using nothing but. In 1v1 it guarantees fail against anyone other than a noob due the patch revisions.

3. You didn't play the man or his strategy, anticipate or even read how play was developing. I saw it immediately. He anticipated yours too. You played the characteristic Brit (your usual?) lazy rushed early Stuart to dominate the field game hand.

4. He played his hand better. You made many mistakes he capitalised upon.

(i) Piospam? He only had six, but he played them well. He shepherded them, and didn't sacrifice them carelessly. But more importantly, OTOH you failed to aggressively hunt them down where they were isolated and weak.

(ii) Building a Lieut prior to moving instead of another squad or Bren carrier first (doubling your firepower in both instances) in this case was foolish. Even moving and building more firepower after lockdown would have been better in this instance. His pios can't hurt your truck at that juncture or remove you from your locked down point.

(iii) When he rushed your lone initial Recon squad, it should have disengaged and redirected to where he was weak on the other side of the map to kill the vulnerable pios and prevent him from capping there followed up by priority decapping only the essential cutoff points. Snipe is BS powerful, esp in opening, and a Brit squad vs x pio squad or x2 with 1 sniped will cut them down in the blink of an eye.

Very quickly regardless he was going with multiple pios or not, you should have churned out the second squad (vs the Lieut) and Reconned them not Brenned them for that fast moving independence and snipe capability, which offers high independent mobility for hunting and capping, with superior firepower per individual encounter, which is strong anti-pio and and counters potential MG spam counter (1 member or even two sniped followed up by focused fire from a two or three squads will cut down any individual MG team deployed in the open or on the move before it can deploy or suppress you, - which lucky for you he didn't go there, 'cos with no mortar or Vickers pits, you would have been suppressed and locked down aka phucked even earlier). Game over.

(iv)You never upgraded the Vickers to rape those Pios that I noticed. Bren Gun Carriers utterly decimate pios, massed or not. Given that you had one, that would have been more effective at that time than Grenade and Bren equip the subsequent squads.

Ultimately, watching your play in the replay.

You were focused upon putting all into the entry of that Supply Truck as fast as you could for your all dominating fast Stuart. He could see that. His strat wasn't particularly strong for that IMV, but is one strat which can be used, although I find it too insta win or total fail risky. It's a gamble strat vs the Stuart rush because if 'shrecks to try and take out the truck (its focus) don't before the Stuart arrives, they are very high risk soft only early counter on an open map like Angoville once that Stuart is in play with its BS cannister. One cannister shot and Wehr can lose 600MP and 150muni for the outlay of just 75muni without risk played with even just basic micro-competency -including donating a unintended 'shreck or two giving way too much early leverage and advantage to the Brit at that juncture of the game. I prefer another strat which offers far greater flexibility for opportunist strike if the window is still open, yet is nowhere near as vulnerable as 'shrecked Grens, and can counter anything the Brit can come up early with including shock entry Churchills, Stuarts, safe from massed vetted infantry and increasingly useful throughout the game through even late game.

(v) Trenches. Just don't. You made a significant mistake building a trench at all, leaving your Lieut useless in it, (a recon squad wouldn't have had to have been), and an even bigger one leaving it intact for your opponent you by then knew had 'schrecks and flamers to occupy when you evacuated it. I almost orgasm whenever I see a Brit offer me the latter on a plate. Anywhere near the trucks or emplacement city, once occupied with 'shrecked Grens or vetted flamer pios it's game over.


You quit too easy 'cos you were gonna have to work for a win for a change. IMV, the window was still open for you to win that. It just wasn't going to be quick and easy Stuart rape-fest you initially envisaged.

Field fighting selected capable forces for that time & phase of play. Sacrificing that to rush that Stuart is placing all your eggs in a single basket. He did too with his 'schreck play BTW. Big gamble. I don't like it.

Use your superior opening firepower to deny him freedom of the map and kill his uber fragile 2 man squad cappers. You didn't. In a reciprocal vein, a solo capping Lieut is vulnerable, and a big resource drain significant loss opening or early. If I see a lack of inf on the field with the expected immediate time frame, and a BGC doesn't make its presence apparent, I know the Brit has a Lieut back capping or alternate field capping and I hunt him down.

Brits have the most powerful opening in the game, the most powerful opening infantry at that stage of the game by far, and the fastest most flexible (fuel or muni) development resource model.

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