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Generals 2

Old discussion with AgmLauncher

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# 1amphibian234 Oct 21 2013, 09:08 AM
A few months ago we discussed supply lines for units. I am interested to see some core gameplay changes that lead to advanced complexity in strategy. The main focus is here is not to test players on the number of actions they perform in a given time, but if they are reading the situation correctly and coming to the right decisions. So we want a shift to quality in decisions, rather than having simple quantity.

Let there be Silo structures which need to be built to sequentially increase ground unit limit. One Silo structure provides 50 supply slots. As you build units, they take up these slots (i.e. rifleman takes 1, tank takes 4, rocket truck takes 6 and so on). Conversely, if you lose units slots are freed up again.

Once the 50 slots limit is reached, a second silo can be built to further increase the ground unit limit. If the silo is destroyed, you will be automatically defeated after X amount of time unless you rebuild it.

There are two truly asymmetrical sides in my concept. This means that the BluFor is more advanced than the OpFor, but it has the obligation to seize territory. Tank units have directional armour values. Mine laying is an important part of the early and middle game.

Another novelty is maximum unit availability over a certain time frame. This means you cannot create a strong imbalance in force composition despite availability of credits. Finally, there is minimum credit allocation to infantry of about 20 per cent.

Structures comprise Silos, Airfields for helicopters, Base Defences and Radar (this structure is exclusive to Blufor and gives the highest tier attack plane). There is no electricity and no structures for building tanks/infantry (the latter are spawned in starting areas when they are developed).

Attack helos work like Raptors and Migs from Generals in that they have limited weapons and re-arm at the airfield. Attack planes are off-map like the A-10 in Generals.

This post has been edited by amphibian234: Dec 10 2013, 13:38 PM

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# 2cnc315d34d Oct 21 2013, 09:20 AM
i can assure you 90% of cnc players would dislike this idea

its not a bad idea in general - it can work for another RTS ofcourse, but doesnt belong in a cnc game


cnc's core emphasis is on 'freedom'... and this means no arbitrary restrictions like
- unit pop caps
- multiple resources which limit your options
- limits on where your units can move on the map
etc

approaches like fast-teching to high tier units, fast aggression with low tier units, fast expanding, or more passive styles of play... cnc allows all of them to be viable

This post has been edited by cnc315d34d: Oct 21 2013, 09:23 AM

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# 3amphibian234 Oct 21 2013, 09:35 AM
QUOTE(cnc315d34d @ Oct 21 2013, 09:20 AM) *

i can assure you 90% of cnc players would dislike this idea

its not a bad idea in general - it can work for another RTS ofcourse, but doesnt belong in a cnc game
cnc's core emphasis is on 'freedom'... and this means no arbitrary restrictions like
- unit pop caps
- multiple resources which limit your options
- limits on where your units can move on the map
etc

approaches like fast-teching to high tier units, fast aggression with low tier units, fast expanding, or more passive styles of play... cnc allows all of them to be viable


For me personally, unit construction depending on certain buildings (i.e. barracks, war factory) combined with dependence on electricity is a major handicap that takes significant time away. Removing these two things frees up time to maneuver units, place mines and booby traps etc. Hence overall, you are not worse off in terms of restrictions, but even more mobile.

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# 4triumph Oct 21 2013, 10:30 AM
That suggestion isn't happening and frostbite engine games won't have mods.

If you're looking for logistics that makes sense go take a look at Wargame:Airland battle or MOW: Assault Squad 2.

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# 5RRcabal Oct 23 2013, 03:21 AM
QUOTE(triumph @ Oct 21 2013, 02:30 AM) *

That suggestion isn't happening and frostbite engine games won't have mods.

If you're looking for logistics that makes sense go take a look at Wargame:Airland battle or MOW: Assault Squad 2.

Plus, when downloading mods, or custom maps, orgin won't let you download them.

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# 6triumph Oct 23 2013, 05:37 AM
You mean activate or use them?

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# 7amphibian234 Oct 25 2013, 17:24 PM
Consider maps that have a river running across and require you to build a bridge to reach the enemy base. This will consist of three phases: securing an area suitable for bridge construction, building the bridge and moving units across.

Secondly, introduce swamp territory over which vehicles/infantry cannot move or experience speed impediments. Thirdly, let maps have forrest areas which ground units can use for concealment.

Hope these ideas get some traction.

This post has been edited by amphibian234: Oct 25 2013, 17:44 PM

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# 8-Netput Oct 25 2013, 17:47 PM
What about; no, those ideas do not belong in a CnC game.


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# 9amphibian234 Oct 25 2013, 18:06 PM
The point of this forum is to discuss new ideas. There are currently hills in the game which channel enemy troops into the 'ramps'. Elevated terrain with detection advantage but without these restrictions will make the game more interesting. Obstacles such as those I listed are map features which require some planning and execution rather than racing armies straight across.

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# 10-Netput Oct 25 2013, 18:08 PM
The point of this forum is to discussion things related to Command and Conquer Generals 2. Those ideas provided by you belong to a totally different game.

The ideas sound great for a realism RTS, but not for CnC.


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# 11Zocom7 Oct 25 2013, 18:27 PM
Devs tried using the Company of Heroes gameplay approach in C&C4 but it failed miserably.

I don't think this new sort of idea will fit into a new C&C game. No, just no.

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# 12Wombat Oct 29 2013, 09:29 AM
Am sure one CNC game had bridge building in it. You used engineers placed in a structure and bridge would be built, but can't remember which one it was.

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# 13-Netput Oct 29 2013, 12:18 PM
In Red alert 1(?) and 2 you could destroy and repair bridges.


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# 14Wombat Oct 29 2013, 14:31 PM
That's the one Netput, I thought bridges was in one of the cnc range.

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# 15triumph Oct 29 2013, 14:33 PM
QUOTE(amphibian234 @ Oct 25 2013, 10:24 AM) *

Consider maps that have a river running across and require you to build a bridge to reach the enemy base. This will consist of three phases: securing an area suitable for bridge construction, building the bridge and moving units across.

Secondly, introduce swamp territory over which vehicles/infantry cannot move or experience speed impediments. Thirdly, let maps have forrest areas which ground units can use for concealment.

Hope these ideas get some traction.


Have you had a look at Red Dragon or Airland Battle yet?

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# 16amphibian234 Nov 6 2013, 15:41 PM
Deleted.

This post has been edited by amphibian234: Dec 10 2013, 14:47 PM

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# 17triumph Nov 6 2013, 16:36 PM
Yeah, go look into MOW:AS and Wargame because they're exactly what you're looking for in the game play department.

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# 18amphibian234 Dec 10 2013, 11:25 AM
I have edited my original post to show a new idea about supply lines.

Blufor should get an infantry spotter unit that lases ground targets for friendly aircraft. A 'lased' ground unit will receive significantly more damage if it is attacked by an aircraft.

Opfor should get a deployable decoy that appears as a tank to enemy aircraft. However, friendly ground units will be able to reveal and destroy decoys by getting close to them.

This post has been edited by amphibian234: Dec 12 2013, 08:33 AM

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