Explore GameReplays...

Heroes of Newerth

Casting Feedback

Reply to this topic Start new topic
# 1LukDeRiff Dec 1 2010, 21:25 PM
As a Thread on the official Forums has shown, the community is more than willing to give us Feedback on our casting section.
We are always looking to constantly improve our casting so here is the place where you guys can tell us what you think we can improve on.
May it be Casters, Camerawork, VoD quality, choice of casted games or anything else related to our casting, please let us know so we can make our VoD section more enjoyable for you.

As much as we appreciate Feedback, I kindly ask you to stay away from comments like:

"You guys are shit, go and die in a fire"

This kind of Feedback does not tell us what we are doing wrong which is essential for us to know so we can work on it.

Thanks beforehand smile.gif

Posts: 1,815

Game: Heroes of Newerth


+
# 2Witchking' Dec 1 2010, 21:37 PM
Primarily, get rid of youtube, you're too dependent on this service.

Posts: 3,689

Game: Heroes of Newerth


+
# 3Snoopy Dec 1 2010, 23:31 PM
QUOTE(Witchking' @ Dec 1 2010, 16:37 PM) *

Primarily, get rid of youtube, you're too dependent on this service.

Well as of now, we cannot support our own VoD services, so what do you recommend in the place of youtube? I understand it has been slow lately, but free HD Video providers are hard to come by.

Posts: 2,195

Game: Heroes of Newerth


+
# 4kustodian Dec 2 2010, 01:03 AM
QUOTE(Witchking' @ Dec 1 2010, 22:37 PM) *

Primarily, get rid of youtube, you're too dependent on this service.

As Snoopy said we cannot run our own video hosting service, since that is very expensive and we would only lose money on it, as Google loses money on YouTube.

Also it's not a big problem if we are dependent on someone big as Youtube/Google, that means our videos are safe biggrin.gif

Posts: 30,650

Game: Heroes of Newerth


+
# 5wtfjosh Dec 2 2010, 01:13 AM
A broader range of games cast. Fun inhouse games, FPVoD tutorials, Ventcasts. Even something new like giving more importance to commentating on the strats, builds and reasons behind them than the actual action of the game (obviously not every cast).

I say this because when it comes to choosing a high level pro cast to watch, I'd pick breaky and honcast most of the time, for the energy, passion, professionalism and fluency of the cast that I haven't heard anyone at honreplays match.

So yeah, I come here for the alternative games and I love you guys, but a lot of the time the commentary of pro games here sounds forced, bored or performed by rote.

This post has been edited by wtfjosh: Dec 2 2010, 01:14 AM

Posts: 12

Game: Heroes of Newerth


+
# 6Kolapz Dec 2 2010, 11:44 AM
First of all I'm going to disagree with the above poster. Youtube is fine. It is safe, easy to use and reliable. If it works for SC2, DotA and CS there is not a single reason why it couldn't be used for HoN VODs.

Now to the feedback.

1. Make the VODs easier to find and navigate. The "Latest on demand" window on the frontpage is a step in the right direction.
2. Do the double camera thingy when the main camera misses action for ALL casts. It's such an excellent thing to do. There's nothing more frustrating for viewers than when the camera guy misses a kill.
3. Get consistent casting pairs. I never know who's gonna cast with who. If you pair up casters their mutual communication and synergy will improve greatly over time and result in better flowing and less awkward casts.
4. Get rid of the "strategy specialists" that obviously have no idea what they're talking about. I can listen to that shit at honcast instead.
5. Get pros to co-cast whenever you can. Make sure thier english is understandable, fluent and flowing. Having a pro in a cast is nice, but not if he stutters and ummmms every time he speaks.
6. Keep FCJ and The Cap as main casters. Add Chapy as a main caster once he decides to start casting again. I personally like YawningAngel as a main caster too, but seems like many people don't - maybe make him co-caster like he was in the UNGL game? Make sure your main casters aren't clueless (which I know yours aren't but mistakes and overlooks happen, I raged when FCJ didn't know how to skill Ophelia).
7. Cast the tournaments with less exposure but with top teams in them, the ones Honcast isn't. There's plenty of them and no coverage. UNGL, ESL, Honlive, KCLeague, the upcoming Excello and CEVO, the list goes on. Cast scrims if you can.
8. Hook up with S_SienZ from Gosugamers and make sure you know if there's a tournament in Asia going on. You now have access to Garena replays which is a big advantage for you guys. Make sure you cast their top teams cause no ones gonna give a shit about random pinoys duking it out. Cast DuskBin, iMpUniTy, Roam And KiLL and xTu. Cast the scrims and tourney matches between them.
9. STATS! I've been saying this for so long on every single casting feedback thread on the official forums ever! If you cast well known teams, do some fucking research and pull dem stats out at random time during the cast. "In the last 5 matches between these teams, this one won", "In the last 10 matches in which N0tail played Soulstealer mid, fnatic lost just once!", "OK has reached the semi-finals in the last 3 tournaments they participated in, can they finally get into the finals?". Stuff like that. Go even more into detail. Stats are always nice to hear.
11. Keep the stats bar open at all times. There is not a single reason why it should be closed. It does NOT get in the way of action, which is your excuse for keeping it closed and opening it only every once in a while.

That's it for now. Can't think of anything else at the moment.

Posts: 90

Game: Heroes of Newerth


+
# 7HolyFtw Dec 2 2010, 12:45 PM
awesome feed back kolapz thank you

Posts: 4,013

Game: Dota 2


+
# 8LukDeRiff Dec 2 2010, 15:29 PM
QUOTE

1. Make the VODs easier to find and navigate. The "Latest on demand" window on the frontpage is a step in the right direction.

Vod organisation is one of our main priorities and it has been for a long time. As it has been said we have merged with UGAME and we will transfer our site to their technology asap, also we are currently working on features for this current site.
QUOTE

2. Do the double camera thingy when the main camera misses action for ALL casts. It's such an excellent thing to do. There's nothing more frustrating for viewers than when the camera guy misses a kill.

Double Camera is difficult to handle for several reasons which go from the lack of cameramen to the fact that we can't do it for livestreaming. But in general we could try to do something like kustodian used to do where whenever he misses action he would rerecord that scene and show it in on of the corners.
QUOTE

3. Get consistent casting pairs. I never know who's gonna cast with who. If you pair up casters their mutual communication and synergy will improve greatly over time and result in better flowing and less awkward casts.

Agreed, I know how it works since I feel that casting with Four Court Jester is much easier for me because I have worked with him for such a long time. The problem that we have is, that currently when we live cast we need to work with the casters that have time and generally it is hard to get those together which cast together on a regular basis.
QUOTE

4. Get rid of the "strategy specialists" that obviously have no idea what they're talking about. I can listen to that shit at honcast instead.

If you are talking about me then I apologize if I have ruined some casts for you. People generally don't tell me that I am absolutely clueless, if that is the overall opinion of the community then I will pack my bags and stop casting (even though I would hate doing it).
If you are not talking about me then I don't know who you are talking about since as far as I know I am the only Strategy Specialist casting atm.
QUOTE

5. Get pros to co-cast whenever you can. Make sure thier english is understandable, fluent and flowing. Having a pro in a cast is nice, but not if he stutters and ummmms every time he speaks.

We try to do this already and with JAH and Swindle joining our staff I think we can deliver much more casts with Pro Insight in the future. The problem in general is that being an awesome player does not make you a good caster, if you can combine it (like Swindle or JAH, even Chapy) then that is obviously amazing.
QUOTE

6. Keep FCJ and The Cap as main casters. Add Chapy as a main caster once he decides to start casting again. I personally like YawningAngel as a main caster too, but seems like many people don't - maybe make him co-caster like he was in the UNGL game? Make sure your main casters aren't clueless (which I know yours aren't but mistakes and overlooks happen, I raged when FCJ didn't know how to skill Ophelia).

I agree and I can assure you that Cap and Jester will be staying as main casters, what chapy does is up to him but obviously we would love to have him back smile.gif
Angel draws a lot of hate which I can understand because he sounds quite arrogant in his casts ( he is English so no big surprise wink.gif) but I personnally like his casting. And to clarify: He is actually a really nice guy, in general very polite, always ready to help and he can't sing for shit tongue.gif
QUOTE

7. Cast the tournaments with less exposure but with top teams in them, the ones Honcast isn't. There's plenty of them and no coverage. UNGL, ESL, Honlive, KCLeague, the upcoming Excello and CEVO, the list goes on. Cast scrims if you can.

We have castes several games from UNGL, ESL, NCL, CSN and we will try to keep up casting teams that are not as well known not only because we want to promote HoN as a whole but also because they are often very interesting and fun to watch.
QUOTE

8. Hook up with S_SienZ from Gosugamers and make sure you know if there's a tournament in Asia going on. You now have access to Garena replays which is a big advantage for you guys. Make sure you cast their top teams cause no ones gonna give a shit about random pinoys duking it out. Cast DuskBin, iMpUniTy, Roam And KiLL and xTu. Cast the scrims and tourney matches between them.

We have recruited a Replay Submitter from SEA who will keep on track with Garena Replays. Other that that contacting people is not my job but I will let Snoopy, Jester and holy know so they can do it.
Btw DuskBin, iMpUniTy and Roam And KiLL will play in Tourney Season 3 so you are going to see them a lot in the following week.
QUOTE

9. STATS! I've been saying this for so long on every single casting feedback thread on the official forums ever! If you cast well known teams, do some fucking research and pull dem stats out at random time during the cast. "In the last 5 matches between these teams, this one won", "In the last 10 matches in which N0tail played Soulstealer mid, fnatic lost just once!", "OK has reached the semi-finals in the last 3 tournaments they participated in, can they finally get into the finals?". Stuff like that. Go even more into detail. Stats are always nice to hear.

Very nice idea, you actually inspired me to do something in order to organize this (oh yeah germans do love keepin stuff organized smile.gif).
QUOTE

10. Keep the stats bar open at all times. There is not a single reason why it should be closed. It does NOT get in the way of action, which is your excuse for keeping it closed and opening it only every once in a while.

This is up to each cameraman but is has been mentioned several time and changing it is not hard and I agree with you. But then again I am not a cameraman and knowing that bunch they are going to stubborn.

Posts: 1,815

Game: Heroes of Newerth


+
# 9Four Court Jester Dec 2 2010, 17:30 PM
Kolapz: Um... yeah. I can truthfully say I've never played Ophelia sleep.gif

As for keeping track of stats, I would love to. It's been suggested before - every time I cast a game with someone I recognize I try to suggest their heroes they excel at, or the stats of the last game they were in that I casted, but beyond that, I just don't have the time to track all that.

Full time job keeps me housed and fed, but leaves a lot of my free time in tatters sad.gif

Thanks for the feedback man.

@Rest: More variety of games and lower tier tournaments are on the block. Thanks for the suggestions, and don't hesitate to give more.

Posts: 3,919

Game: Heroes of Newerth


+
# 10Witchking' Dec 2 2010, 19:15 PM
Kolapz, good points there and I agree with all of them. You eventually reminded me of something else that should be discussed: I personally prefer to listen to casts while I am in game and watching the replay. I don't know how many people actually do it the same way like me but for me personally it would be easier if
1. the casters mentioned briefly at the beginning of the game at what time they are and count down a few seconds and
2. the casts were available as pure audio files. I don't need the video except for synchronizing. The files you have to download would be way smaller and you wouldn't need to switch to the desktop every time a youtube part is over and the script didn't manage to follow up with the next part. (No I am not a youtube-hater, I don't know either why this error appears so often for me).

I am aware that especially the second point would end up in quite a bit of extra work and that's why I'd like to here if there are other people preferring the replay as visual part.

Finally, I'd like to point out that especially the 9th point from Kolapz is fricking important. It'd make the casts much more professional and interesting.

FCJ: It's absolutely understandable that you don't have enough time to do research if you're also having a busy rl and even an admin job for HoN. I'd still hope that you find some time to do some research before the casts. smile.gif

Posts: 3,689

Game: Heroes of Newerth


+
# 11Four Court Jester Dec 2 2010, 19:26 PM
QUOTE
FCJ: It's absolutely understandable that you don't have enough time to do research if you're also having a busy rl and even an admin job for HoN. I'd still hope that you find some time to do some research before the casts.


Heh; sometimes it's as quick as 'oh hey, going live, come join us'... but I'll try smile.gif

Posts: 3,919

Game: Heroes of Newerth


+
# 12Schobbo Dec 2 2010, 23:21 PM
audio seems to be out of sync sometimes, so the action is like casted 5 seconds later after you already saw what happened, thats pretty annoying
overall the casts are really awesome though smile.gif

Posts: 71

Game: Heroes of Newerth


+
# 13kustodian Dec 3 2010, 00:51 AM
QUOTE(Kolapz @ Dec 2 2010, 12:44 PM) *

1. Make the VODs easier to find and navigate. The "Latest on demand" window on the frontpage is a step in the right direction.

I'm looking into an easy way of highlighting all VoDs on our portal, before we get a full VoDs system.

QUOTE(Kolapz @ Dec 2 2010, 12:44 PM) *

2. Do the double camera thingy when the main camera misses action for ALL casts. It's such an excellent thing to do. There's nothing more frustrating for viewers than when the camera guy misses a kill.

I need to make a guide how to do that...

QUOTE(LukDeRiff @ Dec 2 2010, 16:29 PM) *

Double Camera is difficult to handle for several reasons which go from the lack of cameramen to the fact that we can't do it for livestreaming. But in general we could try to do something like kustodian used to do where whenever he misses action he would rerecord that scene and show it in on of the corners.

I think he is talking about what I'm doing happy.gif

Posts: 30,650

Game: Heroes of Newerth


+
# 14HolyFtw Dec 3 2010, 01:42 AM
i know how to do that just lazy but if u guys like i shall do

Posts: 4,013

Game: Dota 2


+
# 15AngryOldMan Dec 3 2010, 18:04 PM
I went through your archive and i honestly think that #293 is my unrivaled all time favorite VoD - even cross channel. That is exactly what i wanna hear and see more- people havin fun playin this game. Although Valk pawned you hard there guys smile.gif)

I think casting top tier games with strategic commentary is ofc one essential point (btw best game if seen so far DYA finals game #1) but fun VoDs like that random vent cast make my day.

Posts: 23

Game: Heroes of Newerth


+
# 16`Dae Dec 3 2010, 18:13 PM
Hopefully (by the looks of the above posts) you're in the process of creating a better way of organizing your large archive of VoDs. If I could add a request, it would be to include an RSS feed of the latest VoDs. For users, it would allow them to keep up to date without checking the site, and for developers it would provide an easy way of syndicating your content (win win, right?).

Posts: 7

Game: Heroes of Newerth


+
# 17TheCapitalist Dec 3 2010, 22:52 PM
More Cap plox

Posts: 767

Game: Heroes of Newerth


+
# 18Firelight Dec 5 2010, 12:04 PM
QUOTE(Kolapz @ Dec 2 2010, 19:44 PM) *

5. Get pros to co-cast whenever you can. Make sure thier english is understandable, fluent and flowing. Having a pro in a cast is nice, but not if he stutters and ummmms every time he speaks.
6. Keep FCJ and The Cap as main casters. Add Chapy as a main caster once he decides to start casting again. I personally like YawningAngel as a main caster too, but seems like many people don't - maybe make him co-caster like he was in the UNGL game? Make sure your main casters aren't clueless (which I know yours aren't but mistakes and overlooks happen, I raged when FCJ didn't know how to skill Ophelia).



I agree with both of these, but you NEED to keep the people casting together, and not change it up all the time. Get FCJ and Luk to cast together, Minoxen, Smock and Onaprayer to cast together. Haven't heard Chapy and Cap together, but i would imagine it to be entertaining.

Speaking about Minoxen, why have we only seen minor games from him? Hes a funny entertaining and smart caster, should be used more in the tournament matches imo.


If you keep the same casters together, the quality of the casts will improve(They are good casts, but there is always room for improvement)

Get the competitive insight in to cast as much as possible, they offer a very educational and interesting standpoint, and can give the casters something to talk about or raise a point to when nothing much is happening.


Posts: 36

Game: Heroes of Newerth


+
# 19kustodian Dec 5 2010, 18:43 PM
Minoxen is very busy in real life atm post-13661-1143531603.gif

Posts: 30,650

Game: Heroes of Newerth


+
# 20cR. Dec 5 2010, 22:45 PM
I start this off with a positive.
The camera guy was great at catching the action that the casters missed.

And now the negative...
The casters only focusing their attention on the carry type heroes. Never once did I hear about magmus who had a portal key or the ophelia that never got ice ogres against the team with so many -armor abilities(competitive insight asway dropped the ball on this one).

edit: I mean this out of love in a constructive manner.

This post has been edited by cR.: Dec 5 2010, 22:47 PM

Posts: 11

Game: Battlefield 1943


+

1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)