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Rise of the Witch King

7.0.0 Teaser #2 - New Inn Units [Discussion]

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# 1MauHúR Sep 3 2017, 18:16 PM
Discuss the new v.7 teaser on Inn units here!

This post has been edited by MauHúR: Sep 3 2017, 20:53 PM


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Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 2Platino Sep 3 2017, 22:50 PM
I like. I wanna see that Haradrim Spearthrowers


Imo great job for the new patch. I feel that v7 will be the best patch ever.

I like almost all the changes.. Maybe Mordor need something vs Elves or Men, cus BR and cata in v7 are nerfed. Imo maybe this MU will be the only problem of balance


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Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 3MauHúR Sep 3 2017, 22:53 PM
QUOTE(Platino @ Sep 3 2017, 22:50 PM) *

I like almost all the changes.. Maybe Mordor need something vs Elves or Men, cus BR and cata in v7 are nerfed. Imo maybe this MU will be the only problem of balance

I agree. But keep in mind that Easterlings wont give as many PPs anymore, Black Orcs will be better and Corsair firebomb targetting is better. Maybe that makes the earlygame more comfortable and you come into a more stable midgame because of that.


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Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 4Bl1indGuardian Sep 4 2017, 01:09 AM
Excellent Black orcs buff....imo they will be the best inn unit in v7 since they combine best price,more armor vs trample,more soldiers per horde=more dmg....However all inn units seem quite interesting and usefull....Again no words to thank the fellas that work in the new patch..Just thank you guys....we love ya smile.gif

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# 5TheRanger_ Sep 4 2017, 01:22 AM
I'm just happy that the inn units are staying pretty true to what you might expect them to actually be in Middle-earth.
Galadhrim for Men, Black Orcs for Isengard, Haradrim for Mordor, etc.

It's refreshing that so much work is going into this patch from community members. You rarely see so much devotion from game developers these days.

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Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 6Excelsior Sep 4 2017, 04:40 AM
One of my favourite bits of the v7.0.0 patch is the Inn units of course. You guys are gonna love 'em!

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# 7lolzarz Sep 4 2017, 15:43 PM
I don't see the necessity in new inn units, particularly units being from other rosters and units that form a new unit type altogether. Someone care to explain why is this a thing at all?

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# 8Excelsior Sep 5 2017, 05:58 AM
The purpose of the Inn is to provide players with units that are unique and otherwise inaccessible in normal gameplay. The v6 Inn system offered bland and / or redundant units, and for that reason it was reworked. It's long been the intention of the 2.02 team to rework the Inn system.

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Clan: Brothers of War

Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 9Michael Gladius Sep 7 2017, 16:13 PM
I still think that letting inns offer more than one unit would be a smart move. Perhaps the next patch will try this out.

The advantage of 2 or 3 units per faction is that everybody's satisfied. If players want redundant, cheaper versions of line units (such as corsairs, Gundabad orcs, or wildmen), then they can train them. This will not impede upon players who want exotic units such as hobbits, galadrim, and haradrim spear-throwers.

In fact, the inn system could be designed to offer both a cheap/weak harass unit, and an exotic unit. This may not seem vanilla at first, but I'd argue that it is, since units have changed around between patches before. Offering 2 units would allow all 'vanilla' versions to be present simultaneously, and allow more diversity in strategy.

How about these combos?

Men: galadrim, peasants (possible dunedain)
Elves: hobbits, peasants (possible galadrim or cheap lorien swordsmen)
dwarves: hobbits, men of dale (possible peasants)

Isengard: black orcs, wildmen (possible corsairs)
Mordor: haradrim spear-throwers, corsairs (possible easterlings or gundabad orcs)
Goblins: wildmen, gundabad orcs (possible corsairs or black orcs)
Angmar: rhudaur hillmen, gundabad orcs (possible black numenorians or half-trolls)

Any thoughts on these combos? Counter-proposals?

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# 10trevormcg Sep 7 2017, 18:14 PM
just too op imo
allows more unbalanced situations

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Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 11Michael Gladius Sep 7 2017, 19:26 PM
QUOTE(trevormcg @ Sep 7 2017, 18:14 PM) *

just too op imo
allows more unbalanced situations


I prefer to think of it as an asymmetric balance. The factions shouldn't mirror each other too closely, although with inn units it can be extremely difficult or extremely easy to do this. tongue.gif

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# 12brabox Sep 8 2017, 10:07 AM
QUOTE(Michael Gladius @ Sep 7 2017, 20:26 PM) *
The factions shouldn't mirror each other too closely,

But somehow Elves need lumber mills? You know, mirroring Isengard/Mordor/Goblins? tongue.gif


About your suggestion: I think the "bonus" you get from the inn is rather complicated compared to the bonuses you get from the other neutral structures (apart from shipwrights which are never used in normal games). It's a weird situation that some maps have inns and some maps don't. This means that somehow inn units should have no effect on balance. I.e. it should not make a faction more powerful when having access or not having access to them. Which in turn, causes them to recruit uninteresting units.

The v7 units are all useful so they violate the balance principle. Elves with peasants is better than Elves without them. Dwarves without hobbits are weaker as well.

In other words, tthe inn system is fundamentally flawed, and I never liked v7's inn unit idea. Especially hobbits are just way too useful for Dwarves. Try playing Dwarves (1v1) on a map without inns like Erech.

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# 13Michael Gladius Sep 8 2017, 11:19 AM
QUOTE(brabox @ Sep 8 2017, 10:07 AM) *

But somehow Elves need lumber mills? You know, mirroring Isengard/Mordor/Goblins? tongue.gif
About your suggestion: I think the "bonus" you get from the inn is rather complicated compared to the bonuses you get from the other neutral structures (apart from shipwrights which are never used in normal games). It's a weird situation that some maps have inns and some maps don't. This means that somehow inn units should have no effect on balance. I.e. it should not make a faction more powerful when having access or not having access to them. Which in turn, causes them to recruit uninteresting units.

The v7 units are all useful so they violate the balance principle. Elves with peasants is better than Elves without them. Dwarves without hobbits are weaker as well.

In other words, tthe inn system is fundamentally flawed, and I never liked v7's inn unit idea. Especially hobbits are just way too useful for Dwarves. Try playing Dwarves (1v1) on a map without inns like Erech.


Lol, don't forget the rest of my proposal for elves: either an eco boost in the form of a lumber mill equivalent (somehow, elves cutting down trees just seems wrong), or giving them galadrim warriors as an elite, heavy infantry from a lvl 2 barracks that won't die if somebody sneezes on them. wink.gif In the same breath, I also suggested that goblins lose lumber mills, so that they wouldn't have an economy that can compete with Isengard or Mordor...

Yeah, shipwrights need another use besides ships. I think a 250 CP bonus would be a good idea, especially if players ever want to invest in ships. I'm a big fan of naval combat myself, so I'm all for improving it. biggrin.gif

Again, I like the idea of inns producing both cheap harass units and exotic units at the same time because this way, the effect on balance is relatively neutral without sacrificing quality. I.e., a faction can counterbalance really good exotic units with really crappy harass units (such as MoTW having galadrim and peasants), or they can balance out weaker exotic units with better harass units (such as Mordor's haradrim spear-throwers being balanced out with cheap corsairs).

Inns should really emphasize the differences between the factions. Hence the notion of asymmetric balance.

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# 14Mako Sep 8 2017, 11:23 AM
Off topic.
But Legloas should take control of trolls and mumaks (according to PJ films)

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# 15Michael Gladius Sep 12 2017, 11:04 AM
QUOTE(Mako @ Sep 8 2017, 11:23 AM) *

Off topic.
But Legloas should take control of trolls and mumaks (according to PJ films)


Nah, he didn't take control of them, he just leapt on top of them and delivered a point-blank headshot to their skulls. tongue.gif If we wanted to imitate that, then all we'd have to do is have Legolas' hawk strike become super OP at level 10 against monsters. Sorta like if Hawk Strike and King Brand's Beast-slayer had a body-builder baby who grew up taking daily steroid supplements.

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