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# 1Mako Jan 28 2018, 00:17 AM
I heared about a Motoma an idea about making a custom map with limited or debuffed PP.
Also some my friends told me that a thing they don't like in rotwk are the destroy powers (rog, stone rain, watcher etc etc) becasue can't have a counter.
I mean you can use AOTD vs Balrog but he had already killed your army.

What do you think about a game with less powers and weaker powers?

I'm not be able to do a deep analysis of late game and how much Destroy powers influence micro and macro in mid-late game. I wanna only hear you about this.
I like AOE or SC2 that has idea each units kills units and you can support and counter them with other units.


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Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 2StrayHeart Jan 28 2018, 00:29 AM
No, no and no.

Powers make this game unpredictible and since years been making games more interesting due to if well used, were able to change fate and allow you to come back.

Another reason is Powers are very fun to use, no matter if it's early/mid/late game. It is and it always has been. They become even more fun in late game when you have full power tree enabled.

Imo you should focus on balancing black orcs and lings. Lings are half price against haradrim riders and beat them, lol.

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Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 3TaDa! Jan 28 2018, 01:05 AM
Well, u can weaken these powers only to the point when it will look silly from realistic point of view like Avalanche beeing not able to kill army or balrog dying to couple arrows verstehen?

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Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 4Mako Jan 28 2018, 09:50 AM
To be more clear. This isn't a balance topic. I just want to know your impression of this feature of this game.
It is fun of course and avalance can't be a no army killer i agree.
On that we can do a lot of things but isn't our intentsion (stray you can sleep pacefully)

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Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 5Andy San Jan 28 2018, 13:41 PM
mako just wanna try this with a map, nothing more, you play that map if you want


Posts: 3,465

Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 6Mako Jan 28 2018, 16:27 PM
QUOTE(Andy San @ Jan 28 2018, 13:41 PM) *

mako just wanna try this with a map, nothing more, you play that map if you want


Yeah, well i rather listen some opinions insyead doing map stuffs, but that is the point.

Posts: 4,364

Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 7MauH˙R Jan 28 2018, 16:37 PM
PP limit for sure, weakening powers quite hard to do in practice.
The more annoying part of lategame with many PPs is not the impact of one Balrog summon or so but the fact that a few mins after that yet another Wyrm will show up and then yet another Wildmen summon which all together earn enough PPs for the Dragon then. Men spellbook is also really nasty in that regard.

Looking at the impact of the Dwarf spellbook on a long, drawn out game gives a little better impression of how a spellbook can work imo. It doesnt feel nearly as snowbally until both 25ers and Barrage are combinable, but getting there takes a lot more effort and actual units have to earn the points.

Think a map that limits spellbook to 80 points when you activate Ringheroes would be the perfect option.


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Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 8Ab3r` Jan 29 2018, 14:56 PM
Get rid of all 25pp from the game, every factions gets one 15pp at the top of the tree either rain or cloud break.

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Game: Battle for Middle Earth 2


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# 9Mako Jan 29 2018, 15:14 PM
QUOTE(MauH˙R @ Jan 28 2018, 16:37 PM) *

PP limit for sure, weakening powers quite hard to do in practice.
The more annoying part of lategame with many PPs is not the impact of one Balrog summon or so but the fact that a few mins after that yet another Wyrm will show up and then yet another Wildmen summon which all together earn enough PPs for the Dragon then. Men spellbook is also really nasty in that regard.

Looking at the impact of the Dwarf spellbook on a long, drawn out game gives a little better impression of how a spellbook can work imo. It doesnt feel nearly as snowbally until both 25ers and Barrage are combinable, but getting there takes a lot more effort and actual units have to earn the points.

Think a map that limits spellbook to 80 points when you activate Ringheroes would be the perfect option.

Snowball of powers is bad yeah. But destroying powers doesn't hurt you? The only thing that save you from a Barrage or AOTD, is that you are spamming like a shit. So the end game is keeping to spam and get enough PP to kill your opponent.

QUOTE(Ab3r` @ Jan 29 2018, 14:56 PM) *

Get rid of all 25pp from the game, every factions gets one 15pp at the top of the tree either rain or cloud break.


That was same feeling i felt.

This post has been edited by Mako: Jan 29 2018, 15:28 PM

Posts: 4,364

Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 10brabox Jan 29 2018, 15:18 PM
Powers already unlock more slowly in v7 and I'm quite happy with the situation right now except for the fact that summoned units can still earn PPs.

If you wanna experiment with a custom map that reduces the effectiveness of the spellbook, there are 2 things that seem easy for map.ini to do:
1. Limit the total amount of PPs you can get
2. Change the global scalar to make PP acquisition slower.

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Game: Rise of the Witchking 2.01


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# 11Mako Jan 29 2018, 15:35 PM
QUOTE(brabox @ Jan 29 2018, 15:18 PM) *

Powers already unlock more slowly in v7 and I'm quite happy with the situation right now except for the fact that summoned units can still earn PPs.

If you wanna experiment with a custom map that reduces the effectiveness of the spellbook, there are 2 things that seem easy for map.ini to do:
1. Limit the total amount of PPs you can get
2. Change the global scalar to make PP acquisition slower.


I don't like the 2nd idea. This game is already too long to arrive at the situation where you have all pps.

Posts: 4,364

Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 12Elrohir Jan 29 2018, 15:49 PM
I personally love the PP aspect of the game. As said before it makes every game unpredictable and can help turn the tide of battle. I agree that is does remove some of the skill required to win as one well placed/timed PP can win/lose you the game. However I find that to be one of the most fun (and admittedly frustrating at times) interactions. I also believe that some games might never end if we didn't have the big swing PPs

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Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 13TheRanger_ Jan 29 2018, 20:33 PM
Power Points are one of the more fun attractions to the game, although I can see why they would sometimes give people a headache.

The only thing I don't like about them are the summons that generate more points. Definitely too much, I think.

Posts: 63

Game: Rise of the Witch King


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# 14Excelsior Feb 5 2018, 15:25 PM
QUOTE(StrayHeart @ Jan 28 2018, 00:29 AM) *

No, no and no.

Powers make this game unpredictible and since years been making games more interesting due to if well used, were able to change fate and allow you to come back.

Another reason is Powers are very fun to use, no matter if it's early/mid/late game. It is and it always has been. They become even more fun in late game when you have full power tree enabled.


As an alternative gameplay mode, I'd agree (which I believe is what Mako's proposing). A change such as this would never fall through as it would literally break the very vanilla foundation of the game.

QUOTE

Imo you should focus on balancing black orcs and lings. Lings are half price against haradrim riders and beat them, lol.

Spiderlings are good against cavalry, it's no surprise they can beat most basic cavalry.

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