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Getting past the early game

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# 1fastAiR Jul 31 2020, 19:42 PM
Surviving the early game is really what sets pros/experts apart from the rest. You can make maybe one bad decision and lose for it in the early game, any general tips to help people out?
I've played well over 1k games and can still get caught out, anyone can.

Whatever matchup/tip you can provide would be nice. Like maybe you always do X vs army Y, sometimes little things go un-noticed

As an example as some shitty chinas, I expect a tech rpg to come, so I send some gatts to protect my supplys/dozers early game

Or maybe vs infantry you think a helix will come so you skip a technical and just make quads and have RPGs from your tunnel. Even if he doesnt go helix, thats perfect for outposts, just not so great sv dragon spam

This post has been edited by fastAiR: Jul 31 2020, 19:46 PM

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# 2-NickName Jul 31 2020, 20:04 PM
Play no rush tongue.gif

But yeah, early scouting is key I think in most matches. If you are vs inf (lix or not) afg (fly or vees) or almost every army, if you know what he is going for early on, you have more time to counter that.

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# 3Mp3 Jul 31 2020, 21:10 PM
Building terrorists to deny a potential drop from US, at the beginning of the game. Even if he decides to back off with that idea, you can then use those MrTs to TT his WF or Supply. (depeding on the situation you're in) A general tip I could give, since I see lots of pros doing it.

Also, empty vee spam, against China, can be quite powerful if you got enough cash for it. I call it a "Rob-Play", since he tends to do that quite often in FFAs and 1v1s. biggrin.gif
QUOTE(-NickName- @ Jul 31 2020, 15:04 PM) *
Play no rush tongue.gif

But yeah, early scouting is key I think in most matches. If you are vs inf (lix or not) afg (fly or vees) or almost every army, if you know what he is going for early on, you have more time to counter that.

So you know this, but yet you still get rushed early on despite reavling it coming? biggrin.gif

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# 4DraGaN^ Jul 31 2020, 21:52 PM
QUOTE(fastAiR @ Jul 31 2020, 20:42 PM) *

Surviving the early game is really what sets pros/experts apart from the rest. You can make maybe one bad decision and lose for it in the early game, any general tips to help people out?
I've played well over 1k games and can still get caught out, anyone can.

Whatever matchup/tip you can provide would be nice. Like maybe you always do X vs army Y, sometimes little things go un-noticed

As an example as some shitty chinas, I expect a tech rpg to come, so I send some gatts to protect my supplys/dozers early game

Or maybe vs infantry you think a helix will come so you skip a technical and just make quads and have RPGs from your tunnel. Even if he doesnt go helix, thats perfect for outposts, just not so great sv dragon spam

These are great tips. Surely, it will help me in next WS.

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# 5Lame_camel Aug 1 2020, 01:28 AM
try not to lose any unit (even for a very good trade) like if you have tech RPGs don't evacuate them near USA supply to harass him a few seconds then leave them to die, keep the tech near them and whenever you see a danger coming (it depends on making the right decision, if you are vs 1 vee only then take the engagement but if it is 1 vee 1 ambu you have to be very careful not to let the ambu crush the RPGs, personally i will retreat in this situation, if they are 2 vees 1 ambu you HAVE TO retreat for sure) then put them in the tech and run away then you can come later and harass more
Same thing go for all factions, DON'T waste a single unit however, all china armies (except nuke since its BM are fast and can retreat quickly) may struggle to retreat because of the slow speed movement so for china the tip is to have a good combo of units then to rush (like if you have an offensive dragon tank heading to the enemy base and you found a tunnel [and there is no action going on which means he will mostly notice your unit before it reaches the target] then i would let it set back a few seconds to wait for your other units [gather 3 units maybe] then you can have much better chance to break throw the tunnel)
Same goes for vees, don't risk losing 1 or 2 vees with ambu by sending them straight to your enemy base (when you are sure you didn't cause big losses to him which means he will probably have enough units to defend), just keep hunting his units and harass his forward buildings and by time your army will be ◊2 bigger and better than his armies

Now of course my tip doesn't mean to bunker, it just means "don't lose any unit unnecessarily" however, you have to keep the pressure on your enemy and don't let him expand but whenever you feel there is like 30% chance to lose your units (even for good trade) i would suggest to retreat

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# 6HaWkY^ Aug 1 2020, 07:16 AM
Itís all about surviving that first power plant/ barracks. If I survive that then my win % is high 99.9%.


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# 7-NickName Aug 1 2020, 08:18 AM
QUOTE(Mp3 @ Jul 31 2020, 21:10 PM) *

So you know this, but yet you still get rushed early on despite reavling it coming? biggrin.gif


It still surprises me.

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# 8Leikeze Aug 1 2020, 12:10 PM
Know your opponent, exploit that > everything else done right

Some of your guys play at pro level against opponents you're used to being up against, then I, or somebody else comes along, technically weaker than the guy you go 50/50 with, and we bash you in certain matchups. wacko.gif I cannot see another reason why other than these nerves and brain-blocks that engage when we're loading into the game.

You've played 5k games, Hero has played 30k, muff has played 10k, Exile has played 20k, etc., etc., nerves nerves nerves, blocking your ability to react appropriately.

I don't know what else it could be in your cases.

As for NubName, it's obviously just inexperience atm.

This post has been edited by Leikeze: Aug 1 2020, 12:13 PM

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# 9-NickName Aug 1 2020, 13:22 PM
QUOTE(Leikeze @ Aug 1 2020, 12:10 PM) *

As for NubName, it's obviously just inexperience atm.


So there is still hope for me?

How long can I use that I am just inexperienced as an excuse?

So that name is still sticking around... sad.gif

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# 10Leikeze Aug 1 2020, 14:10 PM
Always hope for you.

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# 11Moliere Aug 1 2020, 14:26 PM
Well I never lose game to any truck rush or empty tech harass anymore and you already know why biggrin.gif

Good players also like to sneak gatling on unsafes gla supplies on map that allows it, almost cost me a game yesterday because I was like "well, no big deal for this one, would be really unlucky to pay the price the one time I'm too lazy to do it".

Worker scout vs inf is pretty popular I think, also can help revealing mines. Else you can still do it with a terrorist.

But honnestly, vs strong opponents you'll always lose game within 3 min even if you are an expert. It won't be an actual 3 min game, but the outcome will be decided by that timing. One mistake can be all it takes for a good player to take control of the game.

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# 12Metti Aug 1 2020, 14:33 PM
IMO early game is no exception from the rest of the game. Funnily enough I think what sets experts/pros apart from others is late game, when the game gets messy, they know how to handle it.
IMO being able to read the game consistently is a very important thing. being able to estimate what your opponent has at that point or what he is going to do and thinking about what you can do to stop him.
I also agree 100% with leikeze. being nervous = being unable to think = playing poorly.


as for the tip, just remember to make units early game. even if you are making scorpions vs inf its better than floating 6k and get over run. spam enough units.


This post has been edited by Metti: Aug 1 2020, 14:51 PM

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# 13Leikeze Aug 1 2020, 14:37 PM
And a big tip if you're playing CWs. Don't bog yourself down with lost games...just quit...

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# 14fastAiR Aug 1 2020, 14:46 PM
QUOTE(Metti @ Aug 1 2020, 14:33 PM) *

IMO early game is no exception from the rest of the game. Funnily enough I think what sets experts/pros apart from others is late game, when the game gets messy, they know how to handle it.
IMO being able to read the game consistently is a very important thing. being able to estimate what your opponent has at that point or what he is going to do and thinking about what you can do to stop him.
I also agree 100% with leikeze. being nervous = being unable to think = playing poorly.
as for the tip, just remember to make units early game. even if you are making scorpions vs inf its better than floating 6k and get over run. spam enough units.

Yea reading the game is important, im very good at reading games im observing. Obviously I can see things yes, but still I can typically tell how a game will go from quite an early stage and im right the vast majority of the time, unless some sick micro swings the balance to the other players favour.
When I play though im know where near as good at reading the game and find myself often guessing wrongly as to what they made me doing. Like maybe I make a palace too soon, then get over-run by dual wf spam when I shoulda invested in dual wf as well.
Maybe I need to scout more, information is very important.

And Leikeze, I guess its hard to find a balance at times. Some people you play are some rusher hell bent on killing you in 3 mintues at all costs and will do everything in their power to acheive it, then the next player maybe plays more passively when I was expecting a shit storm in my base and as such I wasted money on things early game which were never used/needed and I get behind because of it.

This post has been edited by fastAiR: Aug 1 2020, 14:49 PM

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# 15Metti Aug 1 2020, 14:51 PM
as tank vs usas , you can go for
firstwf: 1.troop crawler(send to side), 2.troop crawler(send to side) 3.gat (to side)
2ndwf: 1.gat(send to side) , 2.gat(send to side) , 3.flamer[or gat](to mid)
then get prop center and spam gats.
the idea here is that usa will usually camp one side and defend the other side with vees so what you wanna do is do a big push to his defense at one side with troop crawler and gats behind it and in the meantime attack with 2 gat from the other side. if your gat attack is facing his defence send all units to mid and do a big push from middle. don't send gats or troop crawlers 1 by 1. attack at once. try to make a man wall with tcs and try to kill chinooks with gats. if you do enough damage , he will have a hurt eco and some units, but then you should have enough gat/ecm to defend or just end the game.
the weakness is if usa tries to send first full vee to ur base but vs tank it's not too often(I think tongue.gif).or maybe no eco.
anyway you can change it a bit in case you think he is going for a tank or w/e
it's a freaking yolo move lol

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# 16Moliere Aug 1 2020, 14:57 PM
QUOTE(Metti @ Aug 1 2020, 14:51 PM) *

as tank vs usas , you can go for
firstwf: 1.troop crawler(send to side), 2.troop crawler(send to side) 3.gat (to side)
2ndwf: 1.gat(send to side) , 2.gat(send to side) , 3.flamer[or gat](to mid)
then get prop center and spam gats.
the idea here is that usa will usually camp one side and defend the other side with vees so what you wanna do is do a big push to his defense at one side with troop crawler and gats behind it and in the meantime attack with 2 gat from the other side. if your gat attack is facing his defence send all units to mid and do a big push from middle. don't send gats or troop crawlers 1 by 1. attack at once. try to make a man wall with tcs and try to kill chinooks with gats. if you do enough damage , he will have a hurt eco and some units, but then you should have enough gat/ecm to defend or just end the game.
the weakness is if usa tries to send first full vee to ur base but vs tank it's not too often(I think tongue.gif).or maybe no eco.
anyway you can change it a bit in case you think he is going for a tank or w/e
it's a freaking yolo move lol


As someone who sucks balls with tank, I'll take that advice biggrin.gif

If I can add something to that : with a tc first unit strat I'm pretty sure you should delay your second wf by a few second, else you won't have enough for the tc anyway. You also should place both wf around the middle of the map, that way you can send either unit you produce to any side of the map without them having to drive such a long way for it.

It's also a good way to fool the drone, you move your second dozer to the side, making opponent expect you to build second wf there, when it will be your other dozer that'll actually build it, just next to the first one.

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# 17fastAiR Aug 1 2020, 14:58 PM
QUOTE(Metti @ Aug 1 2020, 14:51 PM) *

as tank vs usas , you can go for
firstwf: 1.troop crawler(send to side), 2.troop crawler(send to side) 3.gat (to side)
2ndwf: 1.gat(send to side) , 2.gat(send to side) , 3.flamer[or gat](to mid)
then get prop center and spam gats.
the idea here is that usa will usually camp one side and defend the other side with vees so what you wanna do is do a big push to his defense at one side with troop crawler and gats behind it and in the meantime attack with 2 gat from the other side. if your gat attack is facing his defence send all units to mid and do a big push from middle. don't send gats or troop crawlers 1 by 1. attack at once. try to make a man wall with tcs and try to kill chinooks with gats. if you do enough damage , he will have a hurt eco and some units, but then you should have enough gat/ecm to defend or just end the game.
the weakness is if usa tries to send first full vee to ur base but vs tank it's not too often(I think tongue.gif).or maybe no eco.
anyway you can change it a bit in case you think he is going for a tank or w/e
it's a freaking yolo move lol

I normally do, gatt down each flank, then tc and gatts to middle, Then I push through middle with like 2/3 tcs and 2+ gatts. Then whilst he fighting all that I just alt path gatts in all over the place to his supplys. I try to take middle, tehc up and get oils during this as well, but with tank I often find myself purely spamming, and forgetting to expand

One aggressive vee though can be annoying, in that case I'll send like 3/4 gatts to intercept it from different directions. Getting 1/2 gatts to come at it form behind works well, so if he trys to retreat on a flank he gets trapped. Mainly talkign about TD here, more open maps are not so easy

Vs no eco USA's I try and get a flamer out very early as soon as I know he went no eco, and send it to his base in the direction his vees arent coming from.

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# 18Metti Aug 1 2020, 15:11 PM
QUOTE(Moliere @ Aug 1 2020, 14:57 PM) *

As someone who sucks balls with tank, I'll take that advice biggrin.gif

If I can add something to that : with a tc first unit strat I'm pretty sure you should delay your second wf by a few second, else you won't have enough for the tc anyway. You also should place both wf around the middle of the map, that way you can send either unit you produce to any side of the map without them having to drive such a long way for it.

It's also a good way to fool the drone, you move your second dozer to the side, making opponent expect you to build second wf there, when it will be your other dozer that'll actually build it, just next to the first one.

good idea. yea you can't make troop crawler and a gat at the same time. one of them will get a bit delayed.

@fastair, yea those aggressive vees are so damn annoying. especially if there is an ambo with it as well.

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# 19Leikeze Aug 1 2020, 15:12 PM
QUOTE(Metti @ Aug 1 2020, 10:11 AM) *

good idea. yea you can't make troop crawler and a gat at the same time. one of them will get a bit delayed.

Unless you only went 1 supply.

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# 20Lame_camel Aug 1 2020, 15:16 PM
QUOTE(HaWkY^ @ Aug 1 2020, 07:16 AM) *

Itís all about surviving that first power plant/ barracks. If I survive that then my win % is high 99.9%.

Noob.... for me it is all about surviving the loading screen then my chance to win is 99.99% tongue.gif

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