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Kanes Wrath

Its not a skill related game.

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# 1d.Apollo Apr 19 2008, 00:03 AM
Basically cnc3 is not a skill related game, never has been never will be IMO. You can be the best omfg player that the game has EVER seen, yet you will never win the majority of your matches on the top level. There are far too many "luck" moves and incidents in the game that drop the skill level, things like the unit AI, engineers, scouting and most of all balance.
How easy is it too snipe a top 10rank player? Drastically easy. You can snipe them even if you are rank 5000 on the ladder because of the list above.
This game can never imo be a top esports title, you learn a decent build order, you are considered a top player, you learn how to abuse a unit/faction you are a top player. (Top player being high ranked or a high tournament finish) There is no skill in that. Dackel just picked up the game, I show him one imba move/build order, he beats me. I have played 500x more games than Dackel on KW, the learning curve isnt there, there is nothing big enough that seperates top players from the rest.
Not sure if you will agree with me but you can see where I am coming from, its really annoying because you can put a lot of effort in for nothing. Bring on sc2.



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# 2JoZhA Apr 19 2008, 00:06 AM
i couldnt agree more! is there a skill for buzzers? no it isnt its pure like whenever it kill ur buzzers or not ! so many luck based moves u! and i notice it after i played alot of games!

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Game: Command and Conquer 3


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# 3StealthStrike Apr 19 2008, 00:10 AM
so...i still think its a fun game

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Game: Kanes Wrath


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# 4VenomHawk Apr 19 2008, 00:11 AM
I like the balancing efforts of the crew and all, and how you think its right to object to them because a game is diverse, but I agree with you, there may be too many things to fight against, but the factions are all General
But I disagree with you at the point of promoting Star Craft 2, looks too much like the original, I don't think everyone should have to work with so many things at once
For the sake of arguement, all I think Cnc3 needs is basically is to have a problem for the average noob, like, having a best way for mining the tiberium crystal like in early games, so you as an expert will need to be the map
Work your tanks for the money is a great part of the game, I think they should increase the cost of the refinery, because they are too spammable, and the same with the Harvester, it promotes gameplay based on buying more refineries and Harvesters to spam with little effort to win
There are many issues saying that the game could be up there easy as pie, but there are very vast problems which need to be tried and fixed
All of the units are crucial to the game, the area, we just need a little piece of the game to call... Hard?

QUOTE(JoZHA)
is there a skill for buzzers?
They are powerful anti infantry, but very weak to anti infantry, they can't even kill an entire militant infantry squad, but they have their upsides, but they shouldn't be seen as non skilled, their speed should be the skill, they have the time to move the units around, but I guess you just overlooked that

This post has been edited by VenomHawk: Apr 19 2008, 00:14 AM

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Game: Command and Conquer 3


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# 5FuumaMonou Apr 19 2008, 00:23 AM
QUOTE(VenomHawk @ Apr 18 2008, 19:11 PM) *

They are powerful anti infantry, but very weak to anti infantry, they can't even kill an entire militant infantry squad, but they have their upsides, but they shouldn't be seen as non skilled, their speed should be the skill, they have the time to move the units around, but I guess you just overlooked that


I think he is talking about how random Buzzers are. Such as it is kind of random which Buzzer will win in a Buzzer battle if both players are paying attention and actually attacking each other's Buzzers. Or sometimes you can walk a Buzzer through an infantry squad (not stopping to like click on it) and you will kill the whole squad while other times you can walk a Buzzer right through the exact same location of the infantry squad (like through the middle of the squad) and kill only half the squad.

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# 6atdsutm Apr 19 2008, 00:35 AM
casual friendly game

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Game: Act of Aggression


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# 7rick007 Apr 19 2008, 00:41 AM
I generally respect your opinions, and I see where you are coming from. However, I can't agree 100%. I mean, why are the same players up in the top 100 or so from TW to KW.

Yes, there are luck factors... but these even out over many games. Do you think poker has no skill just because some noob can get lucky and win a big tournament? Skill still wins out in the long run (when you look at bigger numbers).

So, maybe the game isn't designed perfect for best of 3, 5, or 7 game tournaments... but I think the Ladder does a decent job of bringing the best players to the top. Probably no good for eSports... but still competitive.

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Game: StarCraft 2


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# 8Misoza Apr 19 2008, 00:45 AM
I'd like to see that Dackel vs Apollo match... smile.gif

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Game: World in Conflict


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# 9Jamma Apr 19 2008, 00:47 AM
Tbh in 1.09 TW on TA, it was much more skill related than this shit...

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Game: Command and Conquer 3


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# 10Spliffz Apr 19 2008, 00:48 AM
I said the same thing and got flamed by just about everyone in the topic about EA quality.



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Game: Command and Conquer 3


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# 11N00bKefka Apr 19 2008, 00:51 AM
Well, even though i m a new RR. I can tell whether that game is play through skill or luck. It is easy to tell as a game get longer and what style they are playing.

You have not seen ppl mixing unit yet. Most pro player actually mix serveral extra to go with their spam. Those extra need good micro to work perfectly.

Of course every game have the luck factor inside. Even SC2 gonna have that.

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# 12PwNz3R Apr 19 2008, 01:14 AM
i agree..bring on STARCRAFT 2!!

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# 13avilo Apr 19 2008, 01:14 AM
100% agree. What I was wondering (directed at apollo, khufu, scorp, agm) was with the econ you guys had play tested/balanced for (the lowered econ) how much better was the game? Was it more e-sport worthy when you guys balanced it with the reduced econ? If it was, shouldn't we all push EA on the issue to change it to that economy?



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Game: StarCraft 2


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# 14soqua Apr 19 2008, 01:33 AM
QUOTE(rick007 @ Apr 18 2008, 20:41 PM) *

Yes, there are luck factors... but these even out over many games. Do you think poker has no skill just because some noob can get lucky and win a big tournament? Skill still wins out in the long run (when you look at bigger numbers).


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# 15-PeTe- Apr 19 2008, 01:52 AM
QUOTE(d.Apollo @ Apr 19 2008, 01:03 AM) *

Basically cnc3 is not a skill related game, never has been never will be IMO. You can be the best omfg player that the game has EVER seen, yet you will never win the majority of your matches on the top level. There are far too many "luck" moves and incidents in the game that drop the skill level, things like the unit AI, engineers, scouting and most of all balance.
How easy is it too snipe a top 10rank player? Drastically easy. You can snipe them even if you are rank 5000 on the ladder because of the list above.
This game can never imo be a top esports title, you learn a decent build order, you are considered a top player, you learn how to abuse a unit/faction you are a top player. (Top player being high ranked or a high tournament finish) There is no skill in that. Dackel just picked up the game, I show him one imba move/build order, he beats me. I have played 500x more games than Dackel on KW, the learning curve isnt there, there is nothing big enough that seperates top players from the rest.
Not sure if you will agree with me but you can see where I am coming from, its really annoying because you can put a lot of effort in for nothing. Bring on sc2.


NEEDS A HUG?















































also, i haev hat

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# 16gorays Apr 19 2008, 02:02 AM
If C&C 3 is a luck game, then APOLLO is a one lucky player.

This post has been edited by gorays: Apr 19 2008, 02:22 AM

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# 17MEXICANBROTHER Apr 19 2008, 02:10 AM
QUOTE(atdsutm @ Apr 18 2008, 17:35 PM) *

casual friendly game

Actually, I think the game is DESIGNED to be an esports player's dream. I've seen numerous posts from Apoc that they want the game to be competitive and not just a casual game.

That said, it really won't ever climb to the level of being a professional gaming game unless the major flaws and learning curve are improved.

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# 18gorays Apr 19 2008, 02:12 AM
C&C 3 battlecast was supposed to be the best, atleast it was advertized that way.

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# 19FreeZZinG Apr 19 2008, 02:14 AM
Not entirely true. There are some aspects of the game that are luck related, and that i agree with, however, in the end ultimately the better player wins. Sure sometimes someone sneaks an engineer in your conyard, but thats not "luck". You werent paying attention, therefore i can only see that part of your post as an act through emotion and not logic. Rarely are games decided entirely on luck, sometimes they will turn the tide of the game, such as which buzzers win and whatnot, but since the economy is imo actually in good shape, you can always afford to send an extra. If an economy nerf is implemented the "luck" in this game will only get worse, unless the concepts of these "luck" units are completely changed (wont happen obviously). So the part where "skill" comes in, is just like any other game, half of which is loads of time to play and the other half some talent of ones own. There is skill in this game, and i know that because there is always a winner and a loser. Unless the game is an all out buzzer war... it cant be just luck.


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# 20-PeTe- Apr 19 2008, 02:30 AM
YOU NEED HUG TOO FREEZZZZING?

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