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Red Alert 3

First Beta Balance Patch Changelist

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# 1Platinum Aug 6 2008, 02:09 AM
Hey everyone,

Below is my first pass at a balance change-list for our upcoming major beta-test patch which will address many technical bugs and a huge amount of balance changes as you can see below. We've been updating the balance since the 1st build of the Beta Test went out and are already testing with all changes noted below. This list is huge because it encompasses at least a few weeks of changes that we've been testing as part of our own testing and YOUR feedback from the beta test.

But, with this being a beta test, we're requesting your feedback as we get this first major balance patch ready for activation. I still do not have a release timeline, but when I have some confident information, I will let you know.

Please remember, when you post feedback, we are looking for constructive posts. Anything that deviates from that will likely be over-looked and not considered. Please understand we are making every effort to listen to your opinions and ask that you share it constructively.

Also, there are almost certainly some engineering related bug fixes and functionality changes that will affect balance that aren’t captured here:


Global Changes:

Wall health increased to 300 from 100.

Bridge health decreased to 1000 from 6000.

Garrison Range Bonus increased to 200% from 125%

Infantry vulnerability to PRISM weapon increased to 100% from 30%.

All ships should now slow down by 25% when REALLYDAMAGED.

Standard surface ship armor vulnerability to Rocket damage reduced to 100% from 150%.

Amphibious Ground Units should no longer be crushing infantry on water.

Heroic Veterancy now grants a 25% rate of fire increase.

Heroic infantry are now immune to Bark-Stun.

T1 base defenses now require line of sight. Check your firing lanes!

Air Superiority Fighter attack ranges increased to 300 from 200.

Aircraft are now twice as vulnerable to CANNON, EXPLOSIVE, and GUN damage. This should only affect how quickly ground units can kill them while they’re docked.

Anti-Ground Aircraft will now reveal themselves to their victims if they’re shooting from up on a plateau.

Bark / Roar stun duration increased to 10 seconds from 6. (15s if you have Advanced Tech)

Frozen Units are no longer insta-gibbed by RADIATION damage.

Prism, Tesla, and Wave Force weapons no longer “thaw” frozen units.

Repair Drone leash range increased by 50.

Refineries now have a 30s infiltration delay, to prevent players from spamming infiltrators at refineries and getting mo money, mo problems.


Allied Changes:


Peacekeeper health reduced to 150 from 200.

Peacekeeper now does more damage when up close than when far away.

Peacekeeper damage reduced to 40 at point blank, from 60, and 25 at max range, from 30.

Peacekeepers are no longer immune to RADIATION damage when their shield is active.

Engineer now gets a big armor boost when he’s in his (presumably Kevlar) medic tent. He’s also immune to bark stun in this mode.

Multigunner Turret now has a unique weapon for the Imperial Warrior.

IFV / Multigunner Turret + Dog/Bear range increased to 300 from 150.

IFV now has a unique weapon when garrisoned by an Imperial Warrior

IFV + Dog bark-stun duration increased to 5s from 3s.

IFV + Peacekeeper should now be doing AUTO_CANNON damage.

IFV + Tesla Trooper rate of fire doubled.

Guardian Tank target painter reload time increased to 2 seconds from 0.

Cryocopter health reduced to 300 from 500.

Cryocopter cryo-beam range decreased to 150 from 300.

Cryocopter freeze damage DPS reduced by half, for the rare triple nerf.

Mirage Tank invisibility field radius decreased to 175 from 200.

Mirage Tank mirage field toggle reload time decreased to 2 seconds from 10.

Assault Destroyer Black-Hole Armor armor buff reduced to 25% from 75%.

Athena Cannon shield HP reduced to 2000 from 4000. Duration increased to 20s from 10s. Reload time reduced to 20s from 60s.

Precision Strike now strikes much faster, although no more precisely.

Cryo Satellite powers now have a pre-attack delay time of 5 seconds. In addition to making the power more balanced, it also horribly broke the visual FX!


Soviet Changes:

Flak Trooper magnetic mine range decreased to 20 from 75.

Soviet Ore Collector reactive armor buff increased to 75% from 50%.

Terror Drones will now damage aircraft in the air. Previously they would stop damaging an aircraft once it became airborne.

Apoc Tanks can now grind large vehicles (MCV’s) and even structures(!) using it’s harpoon + grinder.

Heroic Apoc tank damage type changed to EXPLOSIVE from CANNON.

Heroic Apocalypse Tanks now fire high explosive rounds that detonate in an eerily similar fashion to that of V4 rockets.

Soviet Bunkers now refund half their cost when sold. Soviet Bunkers no longer spawn a conscript when sold.

Natasha’s bombing run reload time decreased, she should now be able to immediately paint a new target when she’s done with the old one.

Soviet Power Tree reorganized.

Toxic Corrosion DPS lowered considerably. This should give you enough time to get back to something that can repair you.

Desolator Airstrike field damage increased by 4x.

Desolator Airstrike will now clear garrisons.

Orbital Refuse time to target increased for all levels.

Magnetic Satellite now has a 2 second pre- attack delay, giving you time to GTFO of the way. Beam duration increased by 3 seconds per level. Beam Speed increased to 50 from 30. Doubled effective radius.


Empire of the Rising Sun Changes:

Burst Drone cost decreased to 150 from 300.

Burst Drone attached speed penalty increased to 75% from 25%.

Burst Drones received a 40% damage scalar against Nano-cores.

Imperial Warrior is now immune to Bark-Stun while bonsai charging.

Tank Buster: A burrowed tank buster can no longer attack. You must first unburrow them before giving an attack command. Essentially this cuts the middle “down in the hole but half way up and shooting” state of the tank buster.

Japanese Refineries now grant enough buildability to allow you to wall in your harvesters.

Mecha Tengu ground speed increased to 125 from 100. Water speed increased to 100 from 80.

Transformers are no longer receiving that a massive shroud clear buff when in the air.

Seawing water speed increased to 125 from 100.

Tsunami tank’s are now buildable from the Japanese Naval Yard.

Tsunami Tank secondary ability armor buff changed to 50% across the board and now increases your Tsunami’s speed by 25%.

Chopper VX speed increased to 140 from 120.

Chopper VX should now have an easier time attacking moving units.

Rocket Angel paralyze whip range decreased to 250 from 300.

Waveforce Artillery can no longer fire while moving.

Shogun Battleship: Changed the Ramming Speed ability from a toggle to a location-targeted ability. Reduced duration of ramming speed to 5 seconds from 10. Ramming Battleships now have noticeable acceleration.

Final Squadron aircraft will now attack enemy aircraft while in flight.

Emperor’s Resolve status effect changed from a damage boost to a rate of fire boost. Overall DPS increase should remain the same.

Balloon bomb spread decreased. Level 1 now drops 6 bombs, up from 4. Level 2 drops 10 bombs, up from 8. Level 3 drops, get this, 14 bombs up from 12.

Balloon bombs now move twice as fast. They however fall at the same old speed.

Balloon Bombs are immune to Magnetic Satellite. Apparently they’re made out of ceramics or wood or something.

Final Squadron spread reduced for all levels. Number of planes per target increased for level 2 and 3.


Now I run and hide. wink.gif

-GB

Posts: 122

Game: Red Alert 3


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# 2Echo Aug 6 2008, 02:17 AM
thumb.gif

I like them, cryocopters sound a bit pitiful, but i like the sound of the new mag sat, not as op as before (and i play soviet tongue.gif)

overall, it's obvious why most of these changes are being made

This post has been edited by Echo117: Aug 6 2008, 02:18 AM

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Game: AirMech


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# 3VeDz Aug 6 2008, 02:29 AM
Decent. Yet I feel like it might be a bit too much.

In terms of balance, the game seems pretty spot on as it is.
It's just a hell of a buggy interface for the soviets, that's the real issue for me.

E.g. when I have an aircraft selected and then I right click to deselect them, followed by left click to select the actual airfield, the planes I had previously selected go back to the airfield post-13661-1143531603.gif

I think it's because it doesn't even register that I've deselected the aircraft. But it's really getting in the way of quicker macro by making me do things like number my airfield, in order to avoid it happening.

Posts: 3,403

Game: CNC Generals


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# 4Kojho Aug 6 2008, 02:32 AM
From what I heard the copter wasnt so imba that it needed a triple nerf, I'll be certainly interested to test it out since you guys abviously had a different take on that.

Could you go over exactly why all three changes were warrented?

This post has been edited by Kojho: Aug 6 2008, 02:33 AM

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Clan: Unr3al

Game: StarCraft 2


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# 5DarkMorgulKing Aug 6 2008, 02:32 AM
Haha first of all I appreciate the humor in the list biggrin.gif

QUOTE(Platinum @ Aug 5 2008, 19:09 PM) *

Standard surface ship armor vulnerability to Rocket damage reduced to 100% from 150%.

T1 base defenses now require line of sight. Check your firing lanes!

Magnetic Satellite now has a 3 second pre- attack delay, giving you time to GTFO of the way. Retuned durations of Magnetic Satellite (they’re shorter).

Magnetic Satellite pre attack delay time reduced to 2 seconds from 5. Effective duration increased by 3 seconds for all levels. Speed increased to 50 from 30. Doubled effective radius.
Empire of the Rising Sun Changes:

Burst Drone cost decreased to 150 from 300.

Burst Drone attached speed penalty increased to 75% from 25%.


1. I'm worried about it this affects twinblades. Twinblades have a hard enough time countering a naval assault when there is just a bit of AA around, and this could exacerbate the problem. If it doesn't affect twinblades then that's fine.

2. Thank goodness you didn't overly nerf the defenses! w00t.gif

3. I'm not sure what's going on with the mag satellite - you say you're decreasing the duration in one change, and then increasing in another. Otherwise, I love the changes to it, will make it a skill power!

4. Love the burst drone changes!

Overall very very good!

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Clan: DreaM|DivA

Game: Heroes of Newerth


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# 6Platinum Aug 6 2008, 02:48 AM
Sorry guys, this list was actually a bunch of separate balance change lists that I threw together into one this morning. As such there will be a few typos or inaccuracies. I've edited the Mag-Sat changes for clarity.

QUOTE(Platinum @ Aug 5 2008, 19:09 PM) *


Magnetic Satellite now has a 2 second pre- attack delay, giving you time to GTFO of the way. Beam duration increased by 3 seconds per level. Beam Speed increased to 50 from 30. Doubled effective radius.



As far as the Cryocopter goes: I acknowledge the nerf may be needlessly extreme, but lets see how it plays. I can always buff it later. That's what this beta is all about afterall. biggrin.gif

-GB

Posts: 122

Game: Red Alert 3


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# 7viper Aug 6 2008, 02:52 AM
Global Changes:

Wall health increased to 300 from 100. No Comment

Bridge health decreased to 1000 from 6000. No Comment

Garrison Range Bonus increased to 200% from 125% Good

Infantry vulnerability to PRISM weapon increased to 100% from 30%. Good

All ships should now slow down by 25% when REALLYDAMAGED. Good

Standard surface ship armor vulnerability to Rocket damage reduced to 100% from 150%. Good

Amphibious Ground Units should no longer be crushing infantry on water. Good

Heroic Veterancy now grants a 25% rate of fire increase. Good

Heroic infantry are now immune to Bark-Stun. Good

T1 base defenses now require line of sight. Check your firing lanes! Very Good

Air Superiority Fighter attack ranges increased to 300 from 200. No comment

Aircraft are now twice as vulnerable to CANNON, EXPLOSIVE, and GUN damage. This should only affect how quickly ground units can kill them while they’re docked.Good

Anti-Ground Aircraft will now reveal themselves to their victims if they’re shooting from up on a plateau. Good

Bark / Roar stun duration increased to 10 seconds from 6. (15s if you have Advanced Tech)Not sure about this one

Frozen Units are no longer insta-gibbed by RADIATION damage. Good

Prism, Tesla, and Wave Force weapons no longer “thaw” frozen units. Good

Repair Drone leash range increased by 50. Good

Refineries now have a 30s infiltration delay, to prevent players from spamming infiltrators at refineries and getting mo money, mo problems. Good


Allied Changes:


Peacekeeper health reduced to 200 from 150. You mean increased?

Peacekeeper now does more damage when up close than when far away.

Peacekeeper damage reduced to 40 at point blank, from 60, and 25 at max range, from 30.

Peacekeepers are no longer immune to RADIATION damage when their shield is active.

Engineer now gets a big armor boost when he’s in his (presumably Kevlar) medic tent. He’s also immune to bark stun in this mode. Good

Multigunner Turret now has a unique weapon for the Imperial Warrior. Good

IFV / Multigunner Turret + Dog/Bear range increased to 300 from 150. Good

IFV now has a unique weapon when garrisoned by an Imperial Warrior Good

IFV + Dog bark-stun duration increased to 5s from 3s. Good

IFV + Peacekeeper should now be doing AUTO_CANNON damage. Good

IFV + Tesla Trooper rate of fire doubled. No comment

Guardian Tank target painter reload time increased to 2 seconds from 0. Good

Cryocopter health reduced to 300 from 500. I have a feeling a triple nerf will make cryocopters useless or used much less. We should take a step at a time

Cryocopter cryo-beam range decreased to 150 from 300.

Cryocopter freeze damage DPS reduced by half, for the rare triple nerf.

Mirage Tank invisibility field radius decreased to 175 from 200. Good

Mirage Tank mirage field toggle reload time decreased to 2 seconds from 10.

Assault Destroyer Black-Hole Armor armor buff reduced to 25% from 75%. Not sure but seems like too much of a nerf

Athena Cannon shield HP reduced to 2000 from 4000. Duration increased to 20s from 10s. Reload time reduced to 20s from 60s. Good

Precision Strike now strikes much faster, although no more precisely. Good

Cryo Satellite powers now have a pre-attack delay time of 5 seconds. In addition to making the power more balanced, it also horribly broke the visual FX! UHHHH so now what?


Soviet Changes:

Flak Trooper magnetic mine range decreased to 20 from 75. Wow dont do this. You dont want them to suck vs vehicles. In Red Alert 2 the tesla troopers had bad range and were slower then vehicles so there was not much use in them. They need some range or they wont ever get close to kill vehicles in time

Soviet Ore Collector reactive armor buff increased to 75% from 50%. Good

Terror Drones will now damage aircraft in the air. Previously they would stop damaging an aircraft once it became airborne. Good

Apoc Tanks can now grind large vehicles (MCV’s) and even structures(!) using it’s harpoon + grinder. What about other T3?

Heroic Apoc tank damage type changed to EXPLOSIVE from CANNON. Good

Heroic Apocalypse Tanks now fire high explosive rounds that detonate in an eerily similar fashion to that of V4 rockets. Good

Soviet Bunkers now refund half their cost when sold. Soviet Bunkers no longer spawn a conscript when sold. Good

Natasha’s bombing run reload time decreased, she should now be able to immediately paint a new target when she’s done with the old one. Good

Soviet Power Tree reorganized. No comment

Toxic Corrosion DPS lowered considerably. This should give you enough time to get back to something that can repair you. Good

Desolator Airstrike field damage increased by 4x. Good

Desolator Airstrike will now clear garrisons. Good

Orbital Refuse time to target increased for all levels. Good

Magnetic Satellite now has a 3 second pre- attack delay, giving you time to GTFO of the way. Retuned durations of Magnetic Satellite (they’re shorter). This and next one doesnt make sense. 3 second delay but its reduced to 2 from 5? huh?

Magnetic Satellite pre attack delay time reduced to 2 seconds from 5. Effective duration increased by 3 seconds for all levels. Speed increased to 50 from 30. Doubled effective radius.


Empire of the Rising Sun Changes:

Burst Drone cost decreased to 150 from 300. Good

Burst Drone attached speed penalty increased to 75% from 25%. Good

Burst Drones received a 40% damage scalar against Nano-cores. Good

Imperial Warrior is now immune to Bark-Stun while bonsai charging. Good

Tank Buster: A burrowed tank buster can no longer attack. You must first unburrow them before giving an attack command. Essentially this cuts the middle “down in the hole but half way up and shooting” state of the tank buster. Good

Japanese Refineries now grant enough buildability to allow you to wall in your harvesters. Good

Mecha Tengu ground speed increased to 125 from 100. Water speed increased to 100 from 80. Good

Transformers are no longer receiving that a massive shroud clear buff when in the air. Good

Seawing water speed increased to 125 from 100. Good

Tsunami tank’s are now buildable from the Japanese Naval Yard. Good

Tsunami Tank secondary ability armor buff changed to 50% across the board and now increases your Tsunami’s speed by 25%. Good

Chopper VX speed increased to 140 from 120. Good

Chopper VX should now have an easier time attacking moving units. Good

Rocket Angel paralyze whip range decreased to 250 from 300. No comment

Waveforce Artillery can no longer fire while moving. Good

Shogun Battleship: Changed the Ramming Speed ability from a toggle to a location-targeted ability. Reduced duration of ramming speed to 5 seconds from 10. Ramming Battleships now have noticeable acceleration. Good

Final Squadron aircraft will now attack enemy aircraft while in flight. Good

Emperor’s Resolve status effect changed from a damage boost to a rate of fire boost. Overall DPS increase should remain the same. Good

Balloon bomb spread decreased. Level 1 now drops 6 bombs, up from 4. Level 2 drops 10 bombs, up from 8. Level 3 drops, get this, 14 bombs up from 12. Good

Balloon bombs now move twice as fast. They however fall at the same old speed. Good

Balloon Bombs are immune to Magnetic Satellite. Apparently they’re made out of ceramics or wood or something. Good

Final Squadron spread reduced for all levels. Number of planes per target increased for level 2 and 3. Good


I have a another major proposal. We need to do something about allies and Empire clearing garrisons. It should take one infantry to kill 3 inside a building...not a 1:1 ratio.

This post has been edited by viper: Aug 6 2008, 03:02 AM

Posts: 105


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# 8Warhawk Aug 6 2008, 02:53 AM
Cryocopter nerf may be needed but that is very drastic especially the dps one...

does the assault destroyer need that much of a nerf with the special ability %75 to %25 how about %75 to %50 seems more reasanable.

Baby steps are better than drastic changes...

Posts: 556

Game: Company of Heroes


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# 9Ang3lic Aug 6 2008, 03:02 AM
I think that base defense damage still needs to be nerfed. It basically makes early game un important the way it rapes harassment vehicles. sad.gif

And Burst drones are definitly over powered now.. you can cost effectively take out harvesters wacko.gif

Posts: 23,004

Game: Act of Aggression


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# 10DarkMorgulKing Aug 6 2008, 03:04 AM
Nah, a clever player will be able to avoid them now, I think. We'll have to see how it plays out...but the nerf is pretty hefty already and at least puts IN skill instead of taking it out (as in, skill in placement and skill in maneuvering)

Posts: 13,798

Clan: DreaM|DivA

Game: Heroes of Newerth


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# 11Warhawk Aug 6 2008, 03:05 AM
QUOTE(Ang3lic @ Aug 6 2008, 03:02 AM) *

I think that base defense damage still needs to be nerfed. It basically makes early game un important the way it rapes harassment vehicles. sad.gif



yeah los is a good start but a power requirement increase would be a great addition too

Posts: 556

Game: Company of Heroes


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# 12viper Aug 6 2008, 03:05 AM
haha when i began typing there were not any replies but after i seen what ppl wrote its funny how we all agree smile.gif

Posts: 105


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# 13Platinum Aug 6 2008, 03:07 AM
QUOTE(Warhawk @ Aug 5 2008, 19:53 PM) *

Cryocopter nerf may be needed but that is very drastic especially the dps one...

does the assault destroyer need that much of a nerf with the special ability %75 to %25 how about %75 to %50 seems more reasanable.

Baby steps are better than drastic changes...


Again, if its over-nerfed it'll be very easy to change. Unfortunately what you're seeing is the result of weeks of balance testing & tuning. So even thought the delta between the Beta Assault Destroyer armor buff and the latest Assault Destroyer armor buff is large, that doesn't mean that we didn't test smaller changes too. smile.gif

For what its worth my design intent behind the Black Hole Armor was to allow the player to spread damage between his assault destroyers (thus keeping everyone alive and maintaining his attack group's maximum dps for as long as possible), not to just give the Assault Destroyers a massive armor boost. The AD is one of the highest HP units in the game, so a 75% armor buff was just crazy.

-GB

Posts: 122

Game: Red Alert 3


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# 14DarkMorgulKing Aug 6 2008, 03:09 AM
^ No. We need to see how the LoS works, first. I have a feeling it's more than good enough smile.gif

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Clan: DreaM|DivA

Game: Heroes of Newerth


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# 15S2Zrathustra Aug 6 2008, 03:10 AM
A little much is my impression too, yet I disagree with very few changes.

I really don't think a Peacekeeper nerf is necessary, and you guys went a little overboard with Cryrocopters.

Spot on with 90% though, I can't wait to play! thumb.gif

Posts: 10,729

Game: Generals 2


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# 16SensFaiL Aug 6 2008, 03:11 AM
I really like most of the changes and as Platinum said if something ends up not working out it can just be patched because this is a beta tongue.gif

Posts: 2,142

Game: StarCraft 2


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# 17viper Aug 6 2008, 03:12 AM
Things I still would like to see:

1. Buff basic infantry garrison clearing abilities for empire and allies

2. Kirov buff. Mabe something like 20% more armor or 20% more speed both with and without boosters.

3. Dolphins seem blehh

looks good smile.gif

BTW Ithuldur: I think the peacekeer health was buffed not nerfed. They want to make it closer to melee: thus nerfing ranged damage and giving more health.

This post has been edited by viper: Aug 6 2008, 03:14 AM

Posts: 105


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# 18Trojan. Aug 6 2008, 03:16 AM
What's wrong with the Cryo changes? The only real change is the 40% health nerf, but they were always a bit too tough. Maybe 20% would've been better to start with? The other changes are fairly irrelevant, range doesn't really matter, and now instead of killing frozen units in one second, you will kill them in two!

They will still be extremely useful, just maybe not the "omfg must tech to T2 asap to get cryos" as they are now.

And yeh, Burst Drone spam FOR THE WIN now tongue.gif

Love the fix to tank buster, their firing patterns were so random, for me it was just a matter of spamming 'F' and attack and hoping they fire in between tongue.gif

Also good to see Chopper VX rockets won't just disappear when attacking something moving biggrin.gif

Posts: 28,866

Clan: Order Of The Elites

Game: StarCraft 2


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# 19AgmLauncher Aug 6 2008, 03:32 AM
Wall health increased to 300 from 100. No comment

Bridge health decreased to 1000 from 6000. No comment

Garrison Range Bonus increased to 200% from 125% GOOD!!!!!!

Infantry vulnerability to PRISM weapon increased to 100% from 30%. good

All ships should now slow down by 25% when REALLYDAMAGED. good

Standard surface ship armor vulnerability to Rocket damage reduced to 100% from 150%. No Comment

Amphibious Ground Units should no longer be crushing infantry on water. no comment

Heroic Veterancy now grants a 25% rate of fire increase. good, but veterancy comes too fast

Heroic infantry are now immune to Bark-Stun. cool, good idea smile.gif

T1 base defenses now require line of sight. Check your firing lanes! FUCK YES!!

Air Superiority Fighter attack ranges increased to 300 from 200. Fine

Aircraft are now twice as vulnerable to CANNON, EXPLOSIVE, and GUN damage. This should only affect how quickly ground units can kill them while they’re docked. Not sure I agree. Hurts allied fast-vindicator strats

Anti-Ground Aircraft will now reveal themselves to their victims if they’re shooting from up on a plateau. Good

Bark / Roar stun duration increased to 10 seconds from 6. (15s if you have Advanced Tech) Good

Frozen Units are no longer insta-gibbed by RADIATION damage. Lol good

Prism, Tesla, and Wave Force weapons no longer “thaw” frozen units. Hmm, any reason for this? Sounds like a cool mechanic

Repair Drone leash range increased by 50. Good, please make them more responsive as well

Refineries now have a 30s infiltration delay, to prevent players from spamming infiltrators at refineries and getting mo money, mo problems. Interesting, good idea


Allied Changes:


Peacekeeper health reduced to 150 from 200. Good, agreed

Peacekeeper now does more damage when up close than when far away. It already does tongue.gif, it's just inconsistent

Peacekeeper damage reduced to 40 at point blank, from 60, and 25 at max range, from 30. fine

Peacekeepers are no longer immune to RADIATION damage when their shield is active.How quickly do they die? Should survive longer

Engineer now gets a big armor boost when he’s in his (presumably Kevlar) medic tent. He’s also immune to bark stun in this mode. GOOD!!!

Multigunner Turret now has a unique weapon for the Imperial Warrior. no comment

IFV / Multigunner Turret + Dog/Bear range increased to 300 from 150. What?

IFV now has a unique weapon when garrisoned by an Imperial Warrior no comment

IFV + Dog bark-stun duration increased to 5s from 3s. GOOD!

IFV + Peacekeeper should now be doing AUTO_CANNON damage. What impact will this have?

IFV + Tesla Trooper rate of fire doubled. no comment

Guardian Tank target painter reload time increased to 2 seconds from 0. Good

Cryocopter health reduced to 300 from 500. Triple nerf part 1: bad

Cryocopter cryo-beam range decreased to 150 from 300. Triple nerf part 2: bad

Cryocopter freeze damage DPS reduced by half, for the rare triple nerf. Triple nerf part 3: Good. Overkill. This was the ONLY change that was needed

Mirage Tank invisibility field radius decreased to 175 from 200. no comment

Mirage Tank mirage field toggle reload time decreased to 2 seconds from 10. Good

Assault Destroyer Black-Hole Armor armor buff reduced to 25% from 75%. GOOD

Athena Cannon shield HP reduced to 2000 from 4000. Duration increased to 20s from 10s. Reload time reduced to 20s from 60s. Good

Precision Strike now strikes much faster, although no more precisely. Good

Cryo Satellite powers now have a pre-attack delay time of 5 seconds. In addition to making the power more balanced, it also horribly broke the visual FX! good


Soviet Changes:

Flak Trooper magnetic mine range decreased to 20 from 75. YES! GOOD!

Soviet Ore Collector reactive armor buff increased to 75% from 50%. Hmm "ok"

Terror Drones will now damage aircraft in the air. Previously they would stop damaging an aircraft once it became airborne. Good

Apoc Tanks can now grind large vehicles (MCV’s) and even structures(!) using it’s harpoon + grinder. Nice!

Heroic Apoc tank damage type changed to EXPLOSIVE from CANNON. no comment

Heroic Apocalypse Tanks now fire high explosive rounds that detonate in an eerily similar fashion to that of V4 rockets. cool

Soviet Bunkers now refund half their cost when sold. Soviet Bunkers no longer spawn a conscript when sold. no comment

Natasha’s bombing run reload time decreased, she should now be able to immediately paint a new target when she’s done with the old one. good

Soviet Power Tree reorganized. Details please tongue.gif

Toxic Corrosion DPS lowered considerably. This should give you enough time to get back to something that can repair you. Good

Desolator Airstrike field damage increased by 4x. Hmm, 4x is a bit insane, 2x should suffice

Desolator Airstrike will now clear garrisons. Good

Orbital Refuse time to target increased for all levels. Very good

Magnetic Satellite now has a 2 second pre- attack delay, giving you time to GTFO of the way. Beam duration increased by 3 seconds per level. Beam Speed increased to 50 from 30. Doubled effective radius. It really needs a weighting system. Level 1 can pick up T1 units, level 2 can pick up T2 units, and level 3 should pick up T3 units. Harvesters and MCVs should be considered T2 units


Empire of the Rising Sun Changes:

Burst Drone cost decreased to 150 from 300. WTF NO! They balanced as is. You can very, very cost-effectively counter many units with honorable discharge

Burst Drone attached speed penalty increased to 75% from 25%. Good

Burst Drones received a 40% damage scalar against Nano-cores. Yes, good!

Imperial Warrior is now immune to Bark-Stun while bonsai charging. Yes, good!!

Tank Buster: A burrowed tank buster can no longer attack. You must first unburrow them before giving an attack command. Essentially this cuts the middle “down in the hole but half way up and shooting” state of the tank buster. Excellent

Japanese Refineries now grant enough buildability to allow you to wall in your harvesters.Good

Mecha Tengu ground speed increased to 125 from 100. Water speed increased to 100 from 80. Good! They were kind of balls

Transformers are no longer receiving that a massive shroud clear buff when in the air.Interesting, good idea

Seawing water speed increased to 125 from 100.Any buff for this shitty unit is good tongue.gif

Tsunami tank’s are now buildable from the Japanese Naval Yard. Fantastic idea AGM!

Tsunami Tank secondary ability armor buff changed to 50% across the board and now increases your Tsunami’s speed by 25%.Excellent idea!

Chopper VX speed increased to 140 from 120.Bad idea. Makes it impossible to kite with bullfrogs now

Chopper VX should now have an easier time attacking moving units.Good

Rocket Angel paralyze whip range decreased to 250 from 300.Good

Waveforce Artillery can no longer fire while moving.Good. They were seriously OP

Shogun Battleship: Changed the Ramming Speed ability from a toggle to a location-targeted ability. Reduced duration of ramming speed to 5 seconds from 10. Ramming Battleships now have noticeable acceleration. Good

Final Squadron aircraft will now attack enemy aircraft while in flight. Cool

Emperor’s Resolve status effect changed from a damage boost to a rate of fire boost. Overall DPS increase should remain the same. Ok. Interesting

Balloon bomb spread decreased. Level 1 now drops 6 bombs, up from 4. Level 2 drops 10 bombs, up from 8. Level 3 drops, get this, 14 bombs up from 12. Good

Balloon bombs now move twice as fast. They however fall at the same old speed. Good

Balloon Bombs are immune to Magnetic Satellite. Apparently they’re made out of ceramics or wood or something. You never know what Japanese scientists will come up with next

Final Squadron spread reduced for all levels. Number of planes per target increased for level 2 and 3. Fine


Comments on the things I don't agree with



1. The triple Cryocopter nerf
Contrary to popular belief, with the exception of this unit's ability to freeze a bullfrog or IFV in a couple of shots, it's actually not that overpowered. The thing that makes it useful is its range and health, because its required to stay in place in order to keep something frozen. The issue WAS the DPS of that thing, NOT its range or health.

I strongly, strongly, strongly, strongly suggest only nerfing the DPS of the freeze damage. That is effectively the same thing as a health nerf, because the unit needs to stay in the area longer, thus taking more damage.

The range allowed it to stay behind your army, forcing your opponent's AA to come to the front, where your tanks could kill it. This is what made this unit so interesting. Now it's just $1600 fodder.

2. The burst drone
This is already an insanely useful unit. $150 means it costs LESS than a dog or bear, and it's roughly 23972497324 times more effective. $300 was fine. I think keeping the original price, and adding the slow down change would be perfectly fine. It is BALANCED as is with $300 cost. It's not OP, it's balanced. It's an excellent reactive counter to Stingrays. It's NOT good against harvesters despite what Ang3lic says. It takes too long to actually kill the harvester, and is very easy to stop. That's fine.

That's all I have any strong convictions about. Everything else I'm either neutral or happy with.

Posts: 39,350

Clan: CrAzY

Game: 8bit Armies, Hordes and Invaders


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# 20Luk3u§ Aug 6 2008, 03:33 AM
It'll be interesting to use these new changes. happy.gif

Posts: 8,419

Game: Command and Conquer 4


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