Company of Heroes

I played some games vs PE in this patch and in my opinion this is completely broken, especially PE vs US matchup. If skill is even there is no chance US player can win, unless PE does some huge mistakes.

Not speaking about g43, PE has simply much more manpower now, compared to previous patch and can spam units like crazy. Watch any PE vs US replay, and compare mp icome of both, considering how many units they have and how many sectors they control. I'm sure PE income will always be much higher than US ( usually there is 230-250 for US, and 270-290 for PE )

I got some examples on how many units PE and US must have to match manpower incomes.


1. 4 rilemen, 2 engies, about half map controlled = 233 manpower income


2. 10 panzergrenadiers, 0 map control = 233 manpower income


3 15 pzgrens, half map = 230 income


And you need only 4-6 grens with g43s and you're fine.


My concusion: PE upkeep is OP. All vehicles are quite cheap also, despite panthers and hummels.

In previous patch flakvierlings costed 3 pop, ( less mp income, often causing population block) which was giving big adventage in manpower to allies. But now when it's gone PE can pump grens like crazy. I'm not sure if it is caused by flakvierlings only.

I think solution for that is making Panzergrenadiers cost 4-5 population to match allies infantry.
If you don't believe me now, let's see how next tourney will look like.

This post has been edited by sztefenfu: Jun 2 2011, 21:31 PM

i believe you. recent games have showed that even if u manage to comeback, you will be rolled over later with panthers, cause they can just keep on getting them..while ur poor pershing + at gun wall cant fend off fallschrims. pretty sad tbh.

Nice post, an interesting read. While I play at a lower level then you, I have noticed the PEvUS match-up getting a lot harder after the patch (as US), simply because PE player can dish out so many more units. It is getting me worried though, seeing as another period with a too powerful PE would be really horrific.

I guess we'll see more in the tournament regarding the current balance.

This post has been edited by Frode789: Jun 2 2011, 22:08 PM

You should compare it to wehr upkeep as well, IMO.

Don't forget that US can upgrade the SY for lower upkeep+ your rifles get vet faster. Just want to mention this in case you guys forgot it

Well in 2 v 2 i think US, Brits have the edge, over PE/Wehr, in 1 v 1 though it's the other way around

This post has been edited by Warsreborn: Jun 2 2011, 23:31 PM

RockDeLux- PE has a higher MP income even with both SY upgrades; it makes US play later in the game much harder, especially when powerful PE call-ins come into play (which are not a huge strain on MP either).

Is this different than 2.601?

The only thing that's different from 2601 in those screens is PE isn't screwed out of 6/9 popcap just for non-destructable base defense guns.

Build a Supply Yard -25% upkeeping
Upgrade #1 -25%
Upgrade #2 -25%

3 men PG -6mp min
6men rifles -14.4mp min
6 men rifles with all upgades -6mp min

Upkeep now.. really? I wonder how many games Ami has lost because of a lower MP income in comparison to PE having lost because of strafes, rangers or snipers. Take a look at those numbers and pretty soon ull find urself thinking that PE is just as bad as it use to be.

This really is just a case of US players being out played. I saw it again just the other day in a replay I won't specify. The US player had a RAX and MotorPool for 80% of the game and claimed that PE was OP. BUILD YOUR TANK DEPOT AND WSC AND USE THEM!

Fer the love, US players need to learn to diversify their units and not just cry when their riflespam + fast M8 + AT gun wall doesn't work. Get an M10, mortar, sniper, mg. These units are great against the PE.

And to the OP:
Supply Yard upgrades. That is all.

This post has been edited by TheReverend: Jun 3 2011, 03:32 AM

Meh, another important issue brought up by a good player sidetracked by biased unknowns...what does any of that have to do with the OP?

There's a reason Wehr has low upkeep - they have to transition into new units as the game progresses. US does not. They're supposed to keep the same units the whole game. If you succeed, you can reduce their upkeep.

PE keeps the same infantry, following the US archetype. They do transition from lighter vehicles to light vehicles, but still...I seriously doubt there was as much thought put into the OF factions and how a vanilla mechanic like upkeep applied to them.

I thought that the 45mp reinforce cost was a check to the upkeep question. I mean for 90 mp the PE get 2 men back in a squad, for comparitively the same cost, a us rifle can reinforce 4 men per squad.

I always was under the impression that this was what evend out the scales in this match up. I know that reinforcing pg's really hurts the man power for PE when it comes to teching. But then again this was because strafe completely decimated squads though.

This post has been edited by Merlin_2020: Jun 3 2011, 06:52 AM

The high reinforce cost only has a significant impact in two cases - the very early game, and vs Snipers. With just a little Vet or with upgrades, PGs do not bleed nearly as badly as Rifles do. Even Vetted Rifles are going to lose men here and there.

The reinforce cost ratio is actually worse for Rifles, reinforcing at 60% their purchase cost while PGs reinforce for 53%.

And the G43 buff mitigates quite a bit of that early game reinforcement advantage US used to have.

US is definitely losing the Manpower war atm, but people aren't working enough Snipers into their builds. They were the counter to G43s before, they still are.

You are on the right track though. High upkeep that goes away is similar to high reinforce cost that goes away. The issue is more that US pays for it and PE doesn't, and PE's scales away sooner.

This post has been edited by Kolaris: Jun 3 2011, 07:01 AM

So really its just a thing of the usual ami vs. axis match up. If you don't win early, you're fucked. I mean shrecks are better now, but an m8 can still own a fast t3 build w/ shrecks on any map but Beaux, IRB, and flooded plains, just because of thier size and real inability to cut off the PE player...

the main difference is that the g43s give the axis an early edge now and instead of trying to keep some territory, the PE is there to rape everything ive countered grens with nades successfully but still, pe is noticably stronger then before, especially later on when it can hold middle ground instead of just holding its 1/3 of the map (allowing the bergetiger to get to work).

He's complaining about US upkeep, and complaining that PE isn't popcap fucked anymore. No, it's NOT fair to have your AT gun take 6/8 pop. No, it's not fair to have your base guns take 3 pop each. That's why they were fixed.

PE upkeep is still far higher than wehr, and the US upkeep gets reduced by a pretty significant amount just by making the SY. 1st upgrade is pretty damn cheap as well. You can't compare apples to apples when one is an orange, you don't see me complaining that I have to pay to be able to cap at a decent rate; still slower than rifles.

PE popcap was fixed this patch and you want to revert it by nerfing PGs?

Also, the upkeep of PE is low because their infantry cost 45mp per soldier to reinforce.

PE: 45mp to reinforce 1/3 squad
US: 54mp to reinforce 1/3 squad
...