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Red Alert 3

Ingame Clock

Would you like to have a ingame clock?
78.57% (22)
Yes
21.43% (6)
No

Total Votes: 28
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# 1Das.Duelon Jan 19 2017, 15:45 PM
Heyhey,
last week the topic of a ingame clock came up in the skype group (which u should join, if u have not already). While there were not too many guys against this we thought it would be smart to open up a poll before just going through with it tongue.gif So here it is! Dont forget to give ur reason why u are for/against the ra3 ingame clock!

Posts: 1,299

Game: Battlefield 1943


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# 2ViperMkVII Jan 19 2017, 16:16 PM
I voted yes, since a clock can be quite useful;
but I think we should hide it in the very first minutes (for example the first 4 minutes) when timing is very critical, otherwise we may play game by "watching the clock" instead of relying on experience, imagination and strategy planning in our mind, which could make game boring.

This post has been edited by ViperMkVII: Jan 19 2017, 16:22 PM

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Game: Red Alert 3


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# 3Papa_Coming Jan 19 2017, 19:21 PM
QUOTE(ViperMkVII @ Jan 19 2017, 16:16 PM) *

I voted yes, since a clock can be quite useful;
but I think we should hide it in the very first minutes (for example the first 4 minutes) when timing is very critical, otherwise we may play game by "watching the clock" instead of relying on experience, imagination and strategy planning in our mind, which could make game boring.

thats so true, and its not only the first 4 minutes in my opinion, but if game is very long like 30 minutes, then we need see a clock

Posts: 286


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# 4GBHmichael Jan 19 2017, 19:52 PM
A few questions:

1. How would this be done?
2. Where would it be placed?
3. Would you be able to turn it off if you didn't want it?

Personally, I wouldn't object to having an ingame timer, but I don't really see the benefit. I can see 2 things coming from this:

1. "Ooo this game has lasted a long time hasn't it?"
2. "I BASHED U IN 2:38 U NAB HAHAHA"

Posts: 783

Game: Red Alert 3


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# 5Das.Duelon Jan 19 2017, 20:02 PM
1. Map scripting
2. Good question, dont know yet. I guess just some corner of the screen.
3. since its map scripting you could just play the regular version of a map. There would not be a box you could check/uncheck in the options though.

1. Dont see whats bad about that? biggrin.gif
2. If someone would want to make that statement he could do that anyway. The scorescreen after every game shows how the game was.

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Game: Battlefield 1943


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# 6B00M Jan 19 2017, 20:42 PM
Not a necessary feature for Ra3, but why not..

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# 7ViperMkVII Jan 19 2017, 21:32 PM
QUOTE(WeKill @ Jan 19 2017, 20:21 PM) *

thats so true, and its not only the first 4 minutes in my opinion, but if game is very long like 30 minutes, then we need see a clock

I think if we only use the timer to see "We've played a 45 minute game" then it's pretty useless...
Yes, imo we should hide it to prevent the game from being boring (as I've explained above), we should be able to use timers to improve our timing (and that should be the main benefit of a timer), so hide it for a excessively long time isn't a nice option imo, maybe we can even hide it only for the first 3 minutes tongue.gif
Idk how many minutes we should choose, maybe probably we can find the average time of 3rd ref of a normal BO, then add it 20 seconds (build time of a production structure / turret), and that should be the first X minute where the timer needs to be hidden.

QUOTE(GBHmichael @ Jan 19 2017, 20:52 PM) *

1. How would this be done?
2. Where would it be placed?

→_→ If you often play campaign or if you have played some custom maps (like Spawnage Arena), you should know that EA/mappers usually put some timers/scores/other dynamic text in the bottom-left corner of screen ^ ^

QUOTE(GBHmichael @ Jan 19 2017, 20:52 PM) *

1. "Ooo this game has lasted a long time hasn't it?"
2. "I BASHED U IN 2:38 U NAB HAHAHA"

As Duelon said, even if there isn't a in-game counter, these two things are still possible

Posts: 1,457

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# 8{DO}-LiquidOCELOT Jan 20 2017, 00:03 AM
a waste of time adding clock, cause the human brain should be used if required to map out time thats what i heard from so many pros, fff told me he counted time in his mind for his cryo rush so why not

Posts: 3,110

Game: Red Alert 3


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# 9Das.Duelon Jan 20 2017, 01:07 AM
QUOTE
Not a necessary feature for Ra3, but why not..

Exactly what I thought. Cant really see a reason against it.

QUOTE
I voted yes, since a clock can be quite useful;
but I think we should hide it in the very first minutes (for example the first 4 minutes) when timing is very critical, otherwise we may play game by "watching the clock" instead of relying on experience, imagination and strategy planning in our mind, which could make game boring.

You said yourself that in the early stage of the game timing is very critical so wouldnt u think that a ingame timer would be most important there then? tongue.gif I think that after the first couple minutes of the game the timer uses almost any use, because the arent any timing anymore, due to the things that happened in the game.

QUOTE
a waste of time adding clock, cause the human brain should be used if required to map out time thats what i heard from so many pros, fff told me he counted time in his mind for his cryo rush so why not

waste of time? Why are u caring about how other people spend their time? biggrin.gif also: I am pretty sure that fff guy was bullshitting you and just wanted you to think of him as a genius or something. I am pretty sure anybody here knows anything about ra3 in terms of timings.

Posts: 1,299

Game: Battlefield 1943


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# 10ViperMkVII Jan 20 2017, 07:40 AM
"it's 1:20, my opponent should have just completed third refinery and don't have extra credit to build army, now I should push because it's 1:20"
"I've completed my third refinery in 1:15, the opponent should push me in 1:20 so I need to build defense ASAP"
Imo it's not that fun playing RA3 by exclusively "watching the clock"...

Posts: 1,457

Game: Red Alert 3


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# 11Moh.kohaji Jan 20 2017, 12:10 PM
I think if it's an app where you can open it or close (out from game, like replay tool), you don't even have to make poll , and i think it's possible isn't it ?

Posts: 58

Game: Red Alert 3


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# 12Das.Duelon Jan 20 2017, 12:11 PM
QUOTE
Today, 08:40 AM
"it's 1:20, my opponent should have just completed third refinery and don't have extra credit to build army, now I should push because it's 1:20"
"I've completed my third refinery in 1:15, the opponent should push me in 1:20 so I need to build defense ASAP"
Imo it's not that fun playing RA3 by exclusively "watching the clock"...

these things are depending on the build the players play. If an allied player goes for riptides with javs and AF after that his 3rd will be significantly slower. - just as an example. But I get what u are saying. Hard to find a compromise here though, since after the first couple of minutes the clock looses all relevence. After that all information it gives is the match length xD

Posts: 1,299

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# 13Papa_Coming Jan 20 2017, 13:53 PM
[quote name='ViperMkVII' date='Jan 19 2017, 21:32 PM' post='9995877']
I think if we only use the timer to see "We've played a 45 minute game" then it's pretty useless...
Yes, imo we should hide it to prevent the game from being boring (as I've explained above), we should be able to use timers to improve our timing (and that should be the main benefit of a timer), so hide it for a excessively long time isn't a nice option imo, maybe we can even hide it only for the first 3 minutes tongue.gif
Idk how many minutes we should choose, maybe probably we can find the average time of 3rd ref of a normal BO, then add it 20 seconds (build time of a production structure / turret), and that should be the first X minute where the timer needs to be hidden.

But As you mentioned before, If timing gets useful, it will make game boring (if we use the timing instead of our imagination). So making the time useless is maybe the point? And when is timing useless? in the late game. Btw, useless doesnt mean something bad. I would be pleased to see the time even though i cannot use it in game. Everything else, I agree with you.

But i agree on everything else you have said

Posts: 286


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# 14Technique Jan 20 2017, 15:04 PM
A clock doesn't replace game sense and build progress comparisons between yourself and your opponent.

It's just a crutch for mid-good (but not top) players in sc2 really... no clue why you would want that in cnc.



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# 15{DO}-LiquidOCELOT Jan 20 2017, 17:42 PM
fff never bullshits, he done amazing things for community, just check his youtube channel, he discovered the mcv mini bug that could crush mcvs, this clock thing just brings confusion if you ask me personally just like technique mentioned you have your own sense of game and sensing also includes sensing your self and your opponent.

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Game: Red Alert 3


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# 16Sheriff AA Jan 21 2017, 18:11 PM
QUOTE({DO}-LiquidOCELOT @ Jan 20 2017, 13:42 PM) *

fff never bullshits, he done amazing things for community, just check his youtube channel, he discovered the mcv mini bug that could crush mcvs, this clock thing just brings confusion if you ask me personally just like technique mentioned you have your own sense of game and sensing also includes sensing your self and your opponent.


You call repeatedly abusing glitches and exploits like the mini-MCV bug and invisible infantry glitch as well as creating videos to teach the rest of the community how to abuse them "amazing things for the community"?

You fascinate me.

As far as the in-game clock goes, it could serve as a useful tool for some players (most likely Allied players). As an empire player, I personally don't believe I'd make much use of it.

This post has been edited by Sheriff AA: Jan 21 2017, 18:17 PM

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# 17ViperMkVII Jan 22 2017, 09:52 AM
QUOTE(Das.Duelon @ Jan 20 2017, 13:11 PM) *

these things are depending on the build the players play. If an allied player goes for riptides with javs and AF after that his 3rd will be significantly slower. - just as an example. But I get what u are saying. Hard to find a compromise here though, since after the first couple of minutes the clock looses all relevence. After that all information it gives is the match length xD

And this kind of thing can happen as well: "it's 1:20 and I didn't see his 3rd ref, so he should have built things like rip
jav". Normally that kind of analysis would be based on experience, now it may be purely based on watching the timer... That's exactly why I want to find a compromise, personally I want it to be useful and not too much useful at same time xD

Posts: 1,457

Game: Red Alert 3


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# 18{DO}-LiquidOCELOT Jan 22 2017, 20:52 PM
QUOTE(Sheriff AA @ Jan 21 2017, 18:11 PM) *

You call repeatedly abusing glitches and exploits like the mini-MCV bug and invisible infantry glitch as well as creating videos to teach the rest of the community how to abuse them "amazing things for the community"?

You fascinate me.

As far as the in-game clock goes, it could serve as a useful tool for some players (most likely Allied players). As an empire player, I personally don't believe I'd make much use of it.


back in the day he used to make casts for replays and was a caster a growing influence for the Russian demographic, he done amazing things for community and never taught any one how to use those exploits you framing him for, infact he made a bug alert video which show cases the many bugs this game has so some one like chris can come up with ideas or a developer like cgf or may be predator can come and fix these bugs, he has been giving community a lot just my observation may be i am entitled to own opinion perhaps,

Talking about abusing glitches i didnt find a single thread reported him performing any in game on wall of shame directory very strange with your allegations.

On topic:

Clock is useless no use at all a mug would be more useful than an ingame clock

This post has been edited by {DO}-LiquidOCELOT: Jan 22 2017, 20:58 PM

Posts: 3,110

Game: Red Alert 3


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# 19Sheriff AA Jan 22 2017, 23:55 PM
QUOTE({DO}-LiquidOCELOT @ Jan 22 2017, 16:52 PM) *

back in the day he used to make casts for replays and was a caster a growing influence for the Russian demographic, he done amazing things for community and never taught any one how to use those exploits you framing him for, infact he made a bug alert video which show cases the many bugs this game has so some one like chris can come up with ideas or a developer like cgf or may be predator can come and fix these bugs, he has been giving community a lot just my observation may be i am entitled to own opinion perhaps,

Talking about abusing glitches i didnt find a single thread reported him performing any in game on wall of shame directory very strange with your allegations.


Lol easy there care bear, I was simply trying to make the point that FFF isn't the best example of a person whose actions were to help the community. Making a public video that shows everyone how to perform every single glitch/exploit on the game is not helpful. Sending that video to Chris only would've been helpful. Abusing said glitches (mini MCV bug and invisible infantry) just because they weren't banned at the time also isn't helpful. I'd provide links, but 1. this topic isn't about FFF and 2. I really can't be arsed in trying to talk sense into you.

This post has been edited by Sheriff AA: Jan 23 2017, 06:25 AM

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# 20Terry_Bogard Jan 23 2017, 16:00 PM
This can actually be quite helpful for newcomers and players who haven't played in a long time, but someone needs to make a list of all the common strategies and have time stamps attached to them, in order for this to be extra useful.

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