Terran is only this powerful because Zerg are missing a key unit to stopping bio that they had in brood war. LURKERS! Lurker/ling combo was the key into stopping tanks and bio techs easily. Now that they are gone, Terrans don't really have anything to fear about Zerg early to mid game really. Not sayings its a cake walk for Terran because its not but the road is somewhat cleared for them. Also Defilers made Zerg take zero damage to range attack in brood war and it was a huge factor for late game zerg since their units dropped like flies.
zerg handles bio just fine, its the factory units which own.
edit: quote of idra
QUOTE
IdrA [OTHER DUDE]On August 03 2010 13:55 naventus wrote: Idra vs Silver game 1: Idra gets to lair relatively early, doesn't get overlord speed or overseer, though it would have come in time to see armory/thor push, and react in time. In this scenario, I don't buy the "zerg can't scout in time argument".
Mutas are used well to delay push, but second wave of gas goes into more muta, instead of infestor. There's no reason terran should be allowed to push out with a small army like that, especially if 2-3 of the thors can be NPed.[OTHER DUDE]
a slow expensive upgrade and then 150 gas units for a spell that lasts 9 seconds when he has plenty of support units. to counter what he did you have to commit to roaches from the start, but his build looked like a tank heavy tank/marine push as he stayed in one base, had a fac with tech lab, and was making marines pretty consistently without a reactor. if you go roach vs that you die. and he had marines on his perimeter, his armory was in the back of his base. by the time it was physically possible to scout what he was doing it was too late to counter it.
[OTHER DUDE]Idra vs Silver game 2: Lair is complete just a tiny bit before medivac is ready to go, so we can see Z scouting would in fact be too late for this sort of build. But it is in time to catch the medivac go out. Other clues would have been lack of hellion, but upgrade going on the tech lab. Seems like could be punished by sacrificing lings for the lab.
Time is 7m, turbo newb going out, but Z can delay a bit with the sunkens. Should be enough time to get mutas if that were placed at Lair, but no spire down, instead roach upgrades going on. Instead of reacting properly, Idra is on tilt, and just tries to all in with roach (vs siege tank????). [OTHER DUDE]
lack of hellion+tech lab upgrade does not point to cliffing, it could just as well mean a straight fac unit push or a sneaky blue hellion drop, and if you get ovie lift vs those you lose. mutas do not get out in time to save the hatchery, and you're then on one base muta while he already has access to thor. it can be countered by getting a 200 gas upgrade immediately when your lair finishes. of course if you do that then you lose to any of the tens of other builds he could be doing, that look exactly the same in all of the information you are capable of getting up to that point.
[OTHER DUDE]In both of these games, there were plenty of ways to have spotted and reacted to the builds. In response to Idra's BM despite mediocre and inconsistent play, I can't wait until the korean scene marginalizes him.[/OTHER DUDE]
you do not know what you are talking about. bitch and moan all you want, but dont try to talk about how to play.
This post has been edited by ikkuh: Aug 16 2010, 12:48 PM
I don't like Idra much either for his raging. but that was cheese. it just happened to catch Idra off guard. a little disappointing that even at this level we still have cheese like that but w/e.
Rofl guys.. I wouldn't have GG'd neither, nothing he could have done, even if he had known from the start exactly what he was going to do it still would have been extremly hard to do anything about. An what the hell are u guys talking about? "zerg players have to be agressive in the start vs terran"? wth? how can a zerg player be agressive in the start vs bunkers and siedge tanks? or having to go allin with banelings which is just like gambling...
zerg handles bio just fine, its the factory units which own.
edit: quote of idra
IdrA
[OTHER DUDE]On August 03 2010 13:55 naventus wrote:
Idra vs Silver game 1:
Idra gets to lair relatively early, doesn't get overlord speed or overseer, though it would have come in time to see armory/thor push, and react in time. In this scenario, I don't buy the "zerg can't scout in time argument".
Mutas are used well to delay push, but second wave of gas goes into more muta, instead of infestor. There's no reason terran should be allowed to push out with a small army like that, especially if 2-3 of the thors can be NPed.[OTHER DUDE]
a slow expensive upgrade and then 150 gas units for a spell that lasts 9 seconds when he has plenty of support units. to counter what he did you have to commit to roaches from the start, but his build looked like a tank heavy tank/marine push as he stayed in one base, had a fac with tech lab, and was making marines pretty consistently without a reactor. if you go roach vs that you die. and he had marines on his perimeter, his armory was in the back of his base. by the time it was physically possible to scout what he was doing it was too late to counter it.
[OTHER DUDE]Idra vs Silver game 2:
Lair is complete just a tiny bit before medivac is ready to go, so we can see Z scouting would in fact be too late for this sort of build. But it is in time to catch the medivac go out. Other clues would have been lack of hellion, but upgrade going on the tech lab. Seems like could be punished by sacrificing lings for the lab.
Time is 7m, turbo newb going out, but Z can delay a bit with the sunkens. Should be enough time to get mutas if that were placed at Lair, but no spire down, instead roach upgrades going on. Instead of reacting properly, Idra is on tilt, and just tries to all in with roach (vs siege tank????). [OTHER DUDE]
lack of hellion+tech lab upgrade does not point to cliffing, it could just as well mean a straight fac unit push or a sneaky blue hellion drop, and if you get ovie lift vs those you lose. mutas do not get out in time to save the hatchery, and you're then on one base muta while he already has access to thor.
it can be countered by getting a 200 gas upgrade immediately when your lair finishes. of course if you do that then you lose to any of the tens of other builds he could be doing, that look exactly the same in all of the information you are capable of getting up to that point.
[OTHER DUDE]In both of these games, there were plenty of ways to have spotted and reacted to the builds.
In response to Idra's BM despite mediocre and inconsistent play, I can't wait until the korean scene marginalizes him.[/OTHER DUDE]
you do not know what you are talking about. bitch and moan all you want, but dont try to talk about how to play.