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Supreme Commander

[3217]TNT vs DeadLegion

#21SuperBasMan  Feb 26 2007, 20:16 PM -
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Awesome replay! Personally, if I have his nuts in a grinder like that, I would have gone for tons of gunships , and fly in from the rear, escorted by a couple of fighters. You saw lots of times that he had almost no air defenses, and you had all the time to build gunships, strategic bombers, nuclear arsenal, or even a mavor.

I will definitely check out those UEF build orders.

I think this game has a good chance of becoming replay of the week, simply because it's so fun to watch at high speed.
This post has been edited by SuperBasMan: Feb 26 2007, 20:21 PM
#22FFAxDeadLegion  Feb 26 2007, 20:38 PM -
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QUOTE(AncientSion @ Feb 26 2007, 01:20 PM) *


DeadLegion: Nice massing of more and more factories throughout the game.
Anyways. You should have massed a lot more Klinkhammers, in the beginning you only had 1 engineer doing Klinkhammers.
Secondly, you should have made use out of the power-generator rate-of-fire bonus.

Apart from that pretty good play by you. A shame you wanted to have fun instead of brute effiency wink.gif

Klinkhammers are expensive when your jumping to t3 at the same time. So massing them faster means I go t3 later and I thought I really needed T3 siege bots. After I hit t3 you may notice that I had 4 t2 bots assisting with several t1 engies in there also assisting the construction of several more. Though they did get killed by arty fire eventually. Thanks for the positive comments though. It is just my experience that UEF/Cybran always lose an arty war with an Aeon defensive wall. Mainly because of the accuracy and damage of the Aeon t2 static arty in comparison to the shield strength. (Aeon t2 shields are still standing even after taking a single hit from t3 arty 0_o)

I actually did make use of the power generator rate of fire bonus, but when I hit unit cap I selected all my t1 power gens and self distructed them. (Forgetting that I had some around the T2 arty). Oops.

TNT, me allowing you to build a missile base was an accident on my part. What happened was I forgot to hit the repeat button on one of my air labs that was spamming air scouts. They covered the map and every corner of it and then at the end of their patrol suicide over your base to keep visual tabs on every structure inside. After your t2 missile base started firing I corrected this error on my part. Had you not built a missile base you probably could have made a czar by the time I would have corrected my mistake but who knows smile.gif.

Also its pretty easy to tell what type of aircraft is coming even when you dont have visual confirmation. If you zoom in on the radar signature of a loaded transport you will see all the radar signatures of the cargo flying with it. Then you just judge the speed if you need to distinguish gunships/bombers from ints/scouts.
#23AncientSion  Feb 26 2007, 20:54 PM -
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Oh. I didnt notice you had power plants next to your artillery, my bad. Good point regarding the how-to-distinguish-aircrafts-while-in-radar-range. I always do that myself. You see a pair of slow beeps coming in ? Better split your interceptors and tell them to hit those strategic bombers wink.gif

Sometimes i think you can see the "land" icons surrounding an "air" icon even when fully zoomed out but im not too sure. Good stuff though. This can become the next tip of the week. If its gets, you will get credit.
#24FFAxDeadLegion  Feb 26 2007, 20:59 PM -
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QUOTE(AncientSion @ Feb 26 2007, 02:54 PM) *

Oh. I didnt notice you had power plants next to your artillery, my bad. Good point regarding the how-to-distinguish-aircrafts-while-in-radar-range. I always do that myself. You see a pair of slow beeps coming in ? Better split your interceptors and tell them to hit those strategic bombers wink.gif

Sometimes i think you can see the "land" icons surrounding an "air" icon even when fully zoomed out but im not too sure. Good stuff though. This can become the next tip of the week. If its gets, you will get credit.

Yes you can, even when fully zoomed out (at least for me, if you run at a lower resolution you might not be able to see it at all however), though it is often the case they are all 'unknown' signatures.
#25WDI  Feb 27 2007, 09:41 AM -
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Text book replay on how not to deal with shields.

Shields biggest weakness are powergenerators and you never ever target those even though they had no shields for 1h+. Some forward artillery bases around the back of his base would have save you 1 hour at least.

Also absolulety no use of bombers/gunships or air transports. You did use gunships at the very end. You have absolutely no excuse on this one, you scouted his base multiple times so you knew there were NO air defense for a good 1 hour. And yet you decided to not build any bombers but instead having 100+ interceptors at one time which were doing absolutely nothing.

Also consider going for nukes instead of two Mavor. Nukes go through shields.

That being said, your starting BO was very interesting.
#26FFAxDeadLegion  Feb 27 2007, 15:33 PM -
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QUOTE(WDI @ Feb 27 2007, 03:41 AM) *

Text book replay on how not to deal with shields.

Shields biggest weakness are powergenerators and you never ever target those even though they had no shields for 1h+. Some forward artillery bases around the back of his base would have save you 1 hour at least.

Also absolulety no use of bombers/gunships or air transports. You did use gunships at the very end. You have absolutely no excuse on this one, you scouted his base multiple times so you knew there were NO air defense for a good 1 hour. And yet you decided to not build any bombers but instead having 100+ interceptors at one time which were doing absolutely nothing.

Also consider going for nukes instead of two Mavor. Nukes go through shields.

That being said, your starting BO was very interesting.

Did you even read the thread? frusty.gif

Mavors are T4, not T3.
This post has been edited by FFAxDeadLegion: Feb 27 2007, 17:01 PM
#27WDI  Feb 27 2007, 17:12 PM -
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Actually i was stating my opinion of the replay and how to deal with heavily shielded chokepoints, including the fact that nukes are way better than 2x Mavor at this precise task. May I?
#28FFAxDeadLegion  Feb 27 2007, 17:31 PM -
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QUOTE(WDI @ Feb 27 2007, 11:12 AM) *

Actually i was stating my opinion of the replay and how to deal with heavily shielded chokepoints, including the fact that nukes are way better than 2x Mavor at this precise task. May I?

I didnt build mavors. And nukes can be countered by strategic missile defense while T3 arty will chew him down. Nuke facilities also take twice as long to build, and you have to build nukes after you get the facility up. If I went with nukes the game would likely end at the exact same time it did in the replay.

He would have spotted me building the strategic missile launcher anyway (he spotted the Duke), which would have prompted him to build the defense. The defense against a Duke however is more complicated.

Also If i spent alot of resources building arty behind his lines he would quickly cover the area in range of the arty with t2 shields as soon as he sees the first shots fly in, build 2 aeon t2 arty and counter fire. However TML's pointing at the back of his base would be a better option, he had no tactical defense back there, and with multiple launchers i could destroy a huge chunk of his base quickly. However if he had or built an omni sensor, he would quickly discover that attempt and just put down TMLD.

But, as I said earlier in the thread I was intentionally trying to crack the front of his defensive wall. TNT presented me with a very tough challenge, and I found the game very entertaining and fun trying to crack it. It also made for some pretty sexy screenshots I should upload.
This post has been edited by FFAxDeadLegion: Feb 27 2007, 17:33 PM
#29AncientSion  Feb 27 2007, 19:09 PM -
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I kind of agree with DeadLegion. I wonder how you think getting nukes or mavor is even an option on this map and specificly with this replay tongue.gif
#30wtfwillis  Feb 27 2007, 21:20 PM -
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Good UEF pump, and entertaining replay if you like to see what massed defenses can do...

However, I don't think this replay shows Aeon defenses as being OP, it just shows what you're not supposed to do against a shielded defense like that. In all honesty, it took a long time to build a strong defense against ground units, while neglecting air defense. Had air defense been any kind of priority, the land defense would not have been as strong.

TNT could have been taken out a number of ways before he could turtle real hard: T3 gunships, T3 bombers (if early enough), T2 tac missiles from behind, T3 mob arty from behind his base, 2-3 SCUs dropped into his base, etc.

BTW, according to the manual SCUs will rebuild units as well as buildings. I'd imagine if you have a swarm of T3 bots, you can select some SCUs to assist each of them, and the SCUs should (in theory) rebuild downed bots in the field... so T3 bots supported by SCUs = perhaps steady defense pressure?
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