Explore GameReplays...

Supreme Commander

Poita_'s vs Eshez

#1Poita_  Feb 21 2007, 14:05 PM -
Replays: 7 Game:
Awards:
We both start expanding as usual and Eshez decides he doesn't like my mexes anymore so his commander goes and steals them. It was only a couple of mexes so I thought "Hmm, I don't mind too much", so then Eshez decides to move his commander to my patch of 4 mexes than I was trying to fortify. This was unacceptable. If he thinks he can steal my mexes and get away with it then he's in for a nasty surprise. My ACU decided to visit Eshez's base. No one was home so I wrecked the place as would be expected. Coincidently Eshez had also decided to visit my base at the same time with similar consequences. Later that day Eshez came home to find me trying to take residence in his previously beloved home so naturally he chased me out and exploded in a bright, burning ball of nuclear matter.

GPG, fix ACU plz kthxbai.
#2Eshez  Feb 21 2007, 14:08 PM -
Replays: 21 Game:
Awards:
Maybe if we used default starting postiions and not random it wouldnt be THAT bad.
still stinks biggrin.gif
#3havik  Feb 21 2007, 14:15 PM -
Replays: 0 Game:
hehe nice fairy tale smile.gif

Anyway, why not agree not to use comms until things get fixed? Unless you like it this way... smile.gif
#4Poita_  Feb 21 2007, 15:24 PM -
Replays: 7 Game:
Awards:
QUOTE
Anyway, why not agree not to use comms until things get fixed? Unless you like it this way...


Yeah we probably should next time but this really highlights the problem with it.

I still can't think of a way to fix ALL the problems with the ACU post-13661-1143531603.gif So problematic.
#5spiceant  Feb 21 2007, 16:07 PM -
Replays: 2 Game:
Why not deal with the ACU issue more then talking about the gravity of it
#6Poita_  Feb 21 2007, 16:19 PM -
Replays: 7 Game:
Awards:
QUOTE
Why not deal with the ACU issue more then talking about the gravity of it


1. We cannot deal with it, only make suggestions to GPG.
2. We have discussed in several threads about how to fix the ACU.
3. As far as I can see there is no easy way to fix ALL the problems with the ACU:

These are what I consider problems with the ACU:

- Pushing ACU forwards for a draw
- Com-bombing for a draw
- Using ACU offensively is too powerful on small maps
- There is no real reason not to use the ACU offensively since he can be replaced by a few engies
- ACU is too much of a liability late game: gunship, tac missile and t3 bomber assassinations are not difficult. Preventing them requires much more effort than it should IMO.
- The ACU is useless late game: the ACUs have nice upgrades but half of them are useless because it's far too risky to use your commander offensively in the presence of t3 bots.

If you can think of any changes that can fix ALL of these problems without radically changing the game then please let us know.
#7vilm  Feb 21 2007, 16:28 PM -
Replays: 1 Game:
Awards:
lol, you survived the nuke blast? ohmy.gif
#8timmyfred  Feb 21 2007, 16:30 PM -
Replays: 11 Game:
QUOTE(Poita_ @ Feb 21 2007, 11:19 AM) *

1. We cannot deal with it, only make suggestions to GPG.
2. We have discussed in several threads about how to fix the ACU.
3. As far as I can see there is no easy way to fix ALL the problems with the ACU:

These are what I consider problems with the ACU:

- Pushing ACU forwards for a draw
- Com-bombing for a draw
- Using ACU offensively is too powerful on small maps
- There is no real reason not to use the ACU offensively since he can be replaced by a few engies
- ACU is too much of a liability late game: gunship, tac missile and t3 bomber assassinations are not difficult. Preventing them requires much more effort than it should IMO.
- The ACU is useless late game: the ACUs have nice upgrades but half of them are useless because it's far too risky to use your commander offensively in the presence of t3 bots.

If you can think of any changes that can fix ALL of these problems without radically changing the game then please let us know.


Honestly, I only see the first three as a problem, and it can be solved by simply halving the comm's health, and maybe having an upgrade later. Draws are not a bad thing, inherently, but you should have to work for them...if the comm had half the health he has now, and transports couldn't lift him, then it would make it nigh on impossible to get a draw, unless you yourself were being dumb with your comm, too. With half the health, it makes being offensive risky. Or maybe, instead of taking away him being transportable, make transports more vulnerable to ground AA...that's part of the reason that in high level TA, commbombing was that big of a deal, because Missile Towers were so prevaIent, it was hard to get the transport all the way into the base to guarantee the destruction of the comm....

As far as the last two go...the comm being vulnerable/useless is something we've dealt with in TA for a long time, and it adds another dimension to the game, IMO, rather than taking away from it. It's simply different from what you're used to, but not bad thing.
#9Poita_  Feb 21 2007, 18:01 PM -
Replays: 7 Game:
Awards:
QUOTE
lol, you survived the nuke blast?


Yeah, lol. Take that mutually assured destruction!

QUOTE
Honestly, I only see the first three as a problem, and it can be solved by simply halving the comm's health, and maybe having an upgrade later.


There are problems with simply reducing commander hitpoints:

- Half hitpoints would not stop many people using him offensively. Just look at this game. Eshez was able to completely secure the bottom section just by moving his commander there. There is absolutely no way of stopping such a move that early in the game other than to go with my commander and draw the game.
- Half hitpoints = death by a single tac-missile. On small maps, tactical missile launchers can reach most of the map. If your opponent gets to tier 2 first then you better make sure your commander NEVER sits still. We've not seen much of it yet but I expect tac-missile snipe rushes to become very popular.

QUOTE
Or maybe, instead of taking away him being transportable, make transports more vulnerable to ground AA...


Multiple transports + scout screen = gg

Either that or AA will have to be so good that bombers are completely and utterly useless.

QUOTE
the comm being vulnerable/useless is something we've dealt with in TA for a long time, and it adds another dimension to the game, IMO, rather than taking away from it. It's simply different from what you're used to, but not bad thing.


It DOES take away from it. There are ACU upgrades that are rendered completely useless by the commander vulnerability (Cybran microwave laser upgrade anyone?).

Hiding the commander or putting him under multiple shields protected by insane amounts of AA is not my idea of fun.
#10spiceant  Feb 21 2007, 21:15 PM -
Replays: 2 Game:
I dont understand how offensive ACUS are particularily bad. Everyone can do it and unless its not a symmetrical map it does not give a very random advantage. The ACU is slow and has mediocre firing range.
Getting killed by t3 or air (transports with t3/gunships) is a consequence of not countering what the enemy gets. A single t2 anti missile can ruin tactical missile assasinations as can a good patrol loop. Gunships are not cost efficient against anti air and leave the builder with a relatively deficient economy for a while.
ACU's have a shield upgrade or two and/or can pile up shields/Amissiles near them.

Com killing counters make com killing strats inefficient. Early game offensive com often a must but you decide to protect him at a point when you see enemy making com killers or if you think he is/might.

There is not a tactic that cannot be countered and nobody can do anything that anybody else cannot do.
Reply to Comment