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Supreme Commander

Harbinger ownage

#1Djinn  Apr 9 2007, 14:57 PM -
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You can stop watching after about 20 minutes as I stopped seriously playing after that (couldn't do shit anyway).

Supcom = sit in your base and lock yourself up a bit and PUMP out masses of Harbingers. Send a few all across the map (loyalists are unable to track them down, you will need like 4 to kill three of them) and slowly cripple your enemy.

I seirously couldn't do anything (well when watching a replay you always see alot of things you could do better, but still).

Nice impression of total Harbinger ownage. Loyalists stand no chance. Apart from being alot worse unit-wise, they are also alot more expensive. I produced more recources all the way (until I stopped playing after 20 mins), but you seriously can't stop them.


Sigh.. I admit I didn't play too well, so any pointers would be nice. This shit pisses me off though, map control is unimportant atm.
#2drazz  Apr 9 2007, 15:37 PM -
Replays: 3 Game:
You did really good early on an drove him back into his base, but you did not exploit that very well. You could have gone for a tech 2 fire base with t1 and 2 pd's under a shield near his base. That would have stopped any early harbingers and give you enough time to get an arty or tech2 missile up. Use the mantises to get him bottled up in his base but do not rely on them to overrun it unles you have like 2 times the economy. So map control is important as long as you exploit it to the max.
Your manti raided only the outside of his base. You went in to do some damage but did not go for the economic targets but instead engaged the few tech 3 bots. Because you did not have proper intel and as such, an attack plan. So get at least 1 air factory up and get some scouts tos end over his base before every attack and look how you can let them do the most effective damage. Do not count on your mantises being able to overrun and hold that base. They simply cannot take down all the factorys in time, maybe some mobile artillery could have let you exploit the fact that you had him surrounded early on.
As soon as you see your enemy popping out that first harbinger so soon, you know he is assisting 1 factory and so to say: putting all eggs in one basket. This makes him very vulnerable. Take down those engineers and that factory at all costs. Those mantises alone could have taken out his engineers to stall him long enough for you to get a new attack up on him. Or if you can't, stop producing the mantises and throw everything you got on your own bots to try and get his comm or vital economy.
Harbingers are pretty strong, too strong to fight with the loyalists, but you have no other choice to effectively counter them. Go loyalists and be sure that whenever and wherever they engage they have a decisive advantage like pd's support or air support. And go directly for the big economic targets in his base. You could even had done this with the mantises, they would have gotten in considerable damage before the tech 3 bots would be able to kill them. So next time micro your attacks better: It's not bad if your units get killed as long as you cripple your enemy.
And yes you had some economic advantage, but with the map control you had you should have been able to exponentially out-economy your opponent. Just make sure you get a lot of power and start teching up thosse mexes whenever you can. If you ahve that economic advantage it means you can outproduce him if you throw everything on one project, instead I saw you working on multiple projects at once. Allso if you tech 1 factory to 3, it is best to have it near your starting location where you can easily move all your engineers over to your factory to assist. You built your first tech 3 factory way out there and without sufficient protection.
If you had not given up you might even still have got his commander. Just look for the cheap ez ways, drop a tech 2 engineer near his base to tac missile snipe his comm or go for the devastating air attack.
Also: NO AIR or aa WHATSOEVER. If you had send in 3 tech 1 gunships (t1 transports with light bots) you could have taken down his commander in under a minute. Really baffled me noone went air.

I am not that good a player but I think these tips might help.

-Just SCOUT your enemy more and see their mistakes and weak spots and adjust your strategy and attacks to that.

-Use your early map control to get bigger economy and a tech 2 firebase near his base asap.

-Go for the weak spots in the opponents economy.

-Keep your mantises moving against t3 bots when you were attacking his base. If they stand still they have no chance. And if you keep running you might get the bots to keep walking behind you allowing you to move from one quick destroyable target to the other.

-Exploit air with bombers or tech 1/2 gunships

-NEVER GIVE UP!!!

But otherwize good play.
This post has been edited by drazz: Apr 9 2007, 16:06 PM
#3AncientSion  Apr 9 2007, 15:55 PM -
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This is why i have been complaining a lot lately regarding T3. The last 3 days i had 5 matches against Scaffy, always Cybran vs Aeon matchup. 2 of those games i lost blatantly, the second one was actually in my favour. On all 3 of those he made Harbingers, walked through by defense/units/base and blew up my commander. After i lost the third game, i was immediatly paired against him again, which i quit after 2 seconds because i mad.
To make it EVEN more stupid, i was paired against him yet again (3 times in a row) and left that one as well.

I can only repeat myself, the current metagame consists of almost nothing but rallying engineers and even more engineers and heading to T3 while doing a single t2 engineer in between. Together with the blatant imbalance evolving around auroras and water thats exactly the reason why i stopped SC until a patch brings a serious fix to this mess.
#4IamMacro  Apr 9 2007, 17:25 PM -
Replays: 0
Totally agree with you Sion.
#5Mister T  Apr 9 2007, 17:51 PM -
Replays: 0 Game:
I did a sandbox to see how much harbinger ownz

7 titan vs 7 harbinger
Result
0 titan left - 6 harbinger survived
#6AncientSion  Apr 9 2007, 18:14 PM -
Replays: 16 Game:
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QUOTE(Mister T @ Apr 9 2007, 19:51 PM) *

I did a sandbox to see how much harbinger ownz

7 titan vs 7 harbinger
Result
0 titan left - 6 harbinger survived


Oh sorry i would like to agree you here, but Cybran and UEF T3 is not THAT bad.
Try putting up a T2 Powerplant for the UEF-Player first tongue.gif Because Titans need energy to maintain their shields tongue.gif

wink.gif
#7Djinn  Apr 9 2007, 18:16 PM -
Replays: 1 Game:
Also, if a Titan loses it's shield, retreat him and let it recharge.
#8PaRaSiTe_X92  Apr 9 2007, 19:22 PM -
Replays: 0 Game:
Off-topic: Is there any way to kill units in the Tutorial?

Yeah, I agree T3 bots are OP. Well, either that or a lot of other stuff is UP. I think T3 bots should be made slower, and all T2 should be made stronger, including (maybe) turrets.
#9IpKaiFung  Apr 10 2007, 00:43 AM -
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for some odd reason harbingers take very little damage sad.gif, which is totally shit
#10FunkOff  Apr 10 2007, 01:06 AM -
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Titans are cheaper than harbs, thus about as effective (minus the low-ass turn speed). Loyalists are only about 15% less effective overall. Thus you need slightly higher numbers of loyalists to beat a number of harbs. They also cost more.

Thus, it's obvious T3 favors aeon, at least on teh ground. You should seriously try some air as Cybran next time you get a game to T3. Have ur T3 fac spam fighters (don't wast it on strat bombers_ and have a T2 fac spam gunships. With air superiority, harbs will have a much harder time vs your loyalists.

And in extra-late game, try going upgraded SCUs.

And in ultra-late game, 2 MLs > GC.... I don't recommend figting the fucking thing head on lol, you'll lose for sure, but you cna sneak those things around the map and kill stuff.
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