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The Asian Dynasties

Dj Kaiser vs Mohamed Ali. China vs Russia

#1Dj_KaIsEr  Sep 20 2008, 21:14 PM -
Replays: 8 Game:
After not posting games here for a while I'm back tongue.gif Great Lakes is a hard map for china if you're going for 2 villagers + migration cards but I somehow managed to get a fine aging up time. I was expecting, and honestly eager for, a russian rush but he took advantage of the long distances and went for a cossack semi-ff, quite unique imo and it was well executed, and thats one of the main points I'm posting this game. I had early advantage in fights but them I micro screwed in the first big battle, he hit fortress and start a thick defense to recover his eco I harassed a bit, so I mass units and go fortress as well.
Half an hour game, close game imo. Hey cerby review it, I think you gonna like it biggrin.gif
#2Cerbykins  Sep 24 2008, 05:43 AM -
Replays: 5 Game:
Will give this one a proper look tomorrow, sounds a bit deep for a quick skim! wink.gif
#3Cerbykins  Sep 25 2008, 06:46 AM -
Replays: 5 Game:
First up - credits for the win. smile.gif
Second, review tomorrow - sadly my mental state continues it's slow decline, but I will not allow this game to go past. I could write an essay on it, but I won't - just know the replay will be tomorrow.

Next....strat talk. biggrin.gif

I realise what he does is unique, I acknowledge there is good playing on both sides, but there seem to be some serious errors in his cav plans. Early, his problem is that he makes a massive cav force, but then cannot do much with it. Raiding forces are small-ish because they have to make a mark, but provide a good return on investment. One-type armies are especially risky with China, since you know your Chinese opponent will have lots of types (they have no choice tongue.gif ) and something will be there to counter you. He's probably relyng on the idea that China's anti-cav is relatively weak, but that's all it is - relative. If you put out a big cav force and don't get a big kill (or buy a lot of security for a big plan), you've really wasted cash on it. Raiding will only get you so far before with good players you can't get anything at all, maybe a villager every couple of raids, and losing a cav each time. While I like the idea, in practice it just doesn't really work out. 8 Hussar semi-FF can raid well - this is just too much.
The other major factor in his play is his 'surface area'. Processor heatsinks have a massive surface area to try and expose as much heat to air as possible. The idea is similar here, but this time it's melee troops and fighting potential. The force needs a good 'surface area', or for much of the time a lot of it won't see action, and this will just be another form of troop wastage. Ranged troops can fight in blocks because they can also shoot as a group - Pikes fight as a group because they don't last very long, usually being low cost (even then, there's a limit on how far you can go with that - if you halb spam and try and move a giant block of 100 halbs after your opponent you get everything you deserve tongue.gif ). Cavs need to be split into workable chunks or there's big wastage, like here. Initially he does well with his force, but eventually it kills him off. You could in theory envelop with a cav force and then attack move, but with a big group it's still pretty inefficient for much more than vill/skirmisher chasing. Big melee forces sadly command big micro ability.

All in all though, a good show, if a bit campy. tongue.gif
#4Replaysystem  Sep 26 2008, 10:08 AM -

Replays: 0
A new review is available for this replay. Please click here to view Cerbykins's review, who gave it a score of 6.0.
#5Dj_KaIsEr  Sep 26 2008, 22:34 PM -
Replays: 8 Game:
I didn't think those petards could effectively aid in a counterattack. Yes blowing summer palace and then porcelain tower were annoying moves but by that time I had steady conditions of army massing, some water booming, and later extra tcs. Later I had more war academies so I wasn't badly needing the summer palace anymore. Yeah we camped like hell lol I think he was trying to boost his eco before fighting me, but even if he attacked me right away I massed another army of ckns steppes and keshiks quite quick. I was quite frightened with the idea of a musk + cossack + lots of falcs army against me lol, in fact those hand mortars were more a measure against any falcs (if he had petards, he had foundry, then he had falcs drol.gif ) than sieging forts and blockhouses but of course I did siege him with them.
lol cerby I knew you wouldn't let the tree screwing undetected happy.gif we have discussed a lot about the devastating effects the trees can inflict in a battle, especially such a laggy one as the one here was. His cossacks got pinned between the trees and keshik fire so it was way open for meteor hammers + iron flails tear the strelets apart.
Off-topic: We gotta play some games with assorted civs and post them here, cerby, no offense to titanfans but japan replays are way too unpopular atm unless the japs are on the losing side thum.gif
#6Cerbykins  Sep 27 2008, 06:25 AM -
Replays: 5 Game:
The petards alone can't. But if he times it so a whole load of other stuff happens too - say, bombs TCs and also kills a load of vills - it could be quite a deadly assault. But he basically played his small attacks on their own, no support or follow-up whatsoever. Anything he might have won...all for nought. sad.gif (maybe not sad.gif for you... tongue.gif )
As Russians with no vill cards he needs 3 TC's just to stay in it. Worst case he's facing full migrations + 3 TC + fish boom, difficult to chase even when Russian eco is at it's best.

You might fear Falcs, but even someone who likes his spam as much as him can't afford to spam cannons at 400 gold a pop (and 100 wood as well). 5 cannons, one accident, *POOF* - GG.

So far as tree screw goes, this is almost textbook. I've lost enough games to trees to be very paranoid by now, and this rep is a good proof as to why! tongue.gif Can't advance, once you commit - can't pull out either, all you can do is be pinned there and die, trying to pull out will only cost you even more and lose ground too by that stage. Not a nice situation to be in. tongue.gif

Don't know how high-quality my use of other civs will be, and my standard's not that great at current. Although I usually dodge the trees. biggrin.gif Certainly the only thing I will be on this forum is target practice if I post. wink.gif
This post has been edited by Cerbykins: Sep 27 2008, 06:25 AM
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