Heroes of Newerth

Not that i dont agree that the easy mode is bad, but congratulations on writing a subjective article with little to none facts to back up your opinions, which seem misguided.

This post has been edited by infussle: Feb 5 2010, 14:36 PM

em nub only mood.

i think the pro mood is AR,

random hero ftw!

NOT SO. It been demonstrated many many times.

If you are a beginner, and want to become better at this game (even for casual play), and want to understand ALL hero roles, and want to be able to PLAY all heroes, the first and BEST ADVICE you should get is to turn the filter on to REMOVE ALL EM GAMES FROM GAME LIST.

endofstory.

This is not a 'you suck if you play em' statement, its not a put down. It is advice that people should take if they want to be able to play all 60 heroes and be viable.

Ha, that was pretty good!
They did have one valid point though... in my opinion normal mode is a little too focused on farming and doesn't reward ganks/pushes as much as it should. I suppose this is can be fixed by controlling the other teams jungle though. I'm just remembering that one tourny match where all FA did was farm all match then carried for the win

What a confusing post. You say ganking/pushing isn't rewarded enough, and then give an example where a fa farmed all game and won the game for his team. If the fa would have been ganked, he wouldn't have been able to farm all game. If the towers had been pushed, he wouldn't have been able to farm because the protection is gone. I don't understand your post at all, do you?
The fact is, in NM ganking and pushing is rewarded enough. And farming all game is definitely not going to get you the win in NM, that's what happens in EM.

I know the difference between EM and standard. To tell me that by playing EM I am going to do stupid shit like marchers first or spend my entire time farming the lane instead of roaming or ganking in a standard game is BS. I'd no more pick scout and try to backcap the shrine after playing a couple of hours of TF2 than suddenly unlearn everything about the standard game mode having played EM.

I still think the main problem is its name. I mean, even Starcraft has alt game modes (2v2v2v2BGH is prty popular yeye) but they don't call them easymodes. Rename EM to something like RushMode and the new players won't play it so much.

Any hard evidence to back that up? So far in all my lurking of the Hon forums and visiting this site daily I've never seen any imperical evidence beyond a singular pieces of evidence. Otherwise, em ending faster makes sense because you farm faster and therefore end laning much earlier and beginning taking towers and teamfighting faster.



Yeah, thanks for restating what I basically implied in my entire response.



Yet again, thanks for restating my post. Are you you're arguing with the right person here?

This post has been edited by Techamber1: Feb 5 2010, 20:29 PM

Yea, I confused myself a bit too
But I found the replay, so now we have hard evidence!

Replay

I'm at work right now so I can't re-watch the game, but if I remember correctly Hellbourne was ganking and pushing like crazy. To say it's Hellbourne's fault for not ganking one particular member of the opposing team is a bit of a stretch. If you watch FA , his entire team's strat is to get him farmed (they distract the other team, they save him, they help him jungle, etc). It was a well implemented plan and it won them the game. I just don't think farming up one person should be a viable strategy to win a match (which it obviously was this game).

PS This may only be possible with unbalanced heroes, as this was before the nerf of FA.

all of my accounts are 1600+ and on occasion 1700+ thank you very much

EM isn't Easy Mode it's EVIL Mode- it really should be avoided like the plague. Saying "I wanna take a break" or "EM is better if you play alone" aren't valid reasons imo- I have found that it makes me lazy, not bother to communicate, or even do builds that wouldn't work in -nm, ect. It's better to stay on normal mode, as that is how HoN is supposed to be played. I also started by playing -em when I came to HoN, but soon remembered by I didn't play -em in DotA; it takes appreciation away from normal mode, making it feel hard/long/drawn-out, but playing -nm is a much more rewarding experience. HoN is balanced/created for -nm; not for a 5v5 carry noob fest of hell.

GJ on the article! I hope people stop smoking... erm playing satan mode

If this is the intention, then, in my opinion, you have failed. The article immediately throws terms out there that new players don't understand and you'll lose attention pretty quickly I think.

Just to make 1 point clear. I wrote up the guide but I did NOT add the part about cigarettes! Though it did make me laugh.

The background of me coming up with the idea to write this article was as following: I played HoN in Normal Mode for the first 300 games and I became quite decent and managed to get above 1600psr with respectable stats. So 5-6 mates from the game BfME have joined HoN aswell and have played over 500 games with 95% EM yet they suck totally when I play a game with them. They don't know how to build properly, the feed and their stats suck They only know how to play like 10-20% of the heroes and fail with the rest. I finally convinced them to start playing Normal games and all of a sudden, they improve.

I just hated to always write up the same stuff over and over again when explaining someone that Easy Mode is bad if you try to learn the game. So now I have a guide here which I can refer them to.

You probably think I'm an EM hater because I wrote this up, but as a matter of fact, I do play Easy Mode myself quite often, but only on my smurf because it would fake my stats with hgiher psr, higher xp and less game time making people think I am so much better than I actually am (and because my EM% would become too high). The only times I play Easy Mode is if I feel like fooling around with weird strategies or bragging with my uber skills when I annihilate the enemy by myself with a hero like Warbeast.

I never said one word about Easy Mode not being fun, because I enjoy it, but only play it when you have enough experience in normal games, so you don#t learn the game in a wrong way.

If you learn playing Normal Mode right from the beginning, you will become better in Easy Mode games a lot faster when you attempt them. If you however play Easy Mode right from the beginning, you will suck badly in Normal Games and have a harder time learning the game properly.

I'll make an example of something in real life: Let's say you want to start learning how to drive. Will you choose a casual Ford with good steering, acceleration and a comfortable speed, or will you jump into the Ferrari right away and head onto the highway trying to pwn some noobs and eventually ending in a crash? The Ferrari might be funner to drive, but the casual Ford is safer and better to learn with. Hope you get my point.

This post has been edited by ToRtUr3^: Feb 6 2010, 14:42 PM

I would like to point out, all our Guides, VoDs, Tournaments and even Quick guides are based around normal mode. We aim to get those people that are starting the game to be able to play normal mode so that even if they wish to swap to em games, they would already have a good foundation

Nothing I said in my post was directed at ANYTHING you said EXCEPT the part about EM not being shorter.

And about that. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to go on the ladder and filter by em % games played. Look at people avg game length, and compare the two over enough games/people that its significant. You will see that EM games last 33m-37m and Non em 37-42 about. Thats 5 minutes. If FIVE MINUTES is what people are claiming is the reason they are playing em, than they are not very rational.'

You also make the INCORRECT assumption that because the laning phase ends sooner the game is inherently going to be longer. Not so. It becomes a carry fest and teams get deadlocked with over farmed carry heroes duking it out. In the end, on average, you MAY save 5 minutes. woop-dee-fuckin-doo

This post has been edited by Noso: Feb 8 2010, 02:18 AM

Sorry, it just seemeed that the post was directed towards me for some reason.



Nice one, you just disproved what you said earlier.

It's not like I'm unwilling to believe you, it's just that I would like to see the evidence. As much as scanning the ladder for a "significant" amount of people makes sense, it would be much nicer to have a overview of all the players in the game so that the truth can actually be seen.



LOOK AT ME I CAN TYPES IN CAPS TOO THAT'S HOW YOU KNOW I'M YELLING FOR EMPHASIS. Seriously, you seem to be getting so frustrated over somebody just making a statement that you just proved.

5 words in caps. touchy much? I'm not attacking you we need to put our swords away....

The point is (this isn't for techamber, but for everyone that thinks em is shorter), by looking at the ladder and putting some numbers in excel, you can compare thousands of em games vs. non-em games in a couple of minutes. That sample is large enough to infer what the rest of the population is. Although shorter by a couple of minutes, no where near anything significant. If you are choosing to play EM because you have only 30 minutes to play instead of 35 minutes, you shouldn't be playing anyway.

This post has been edited by Noso: Feb 8 2010, 14:54 PM

More around 20 words, with little to no reason for them being capitalized. Wasn't attacking you, just trying to help out since caps for no reason makes people seem pretentious and overly frustrated.



Would this not be exactly contrary to what you posted earlier however? The part about easy mode being shorter than nm not being true?

And do you know if there have been any large scale insights into the game lengths between the modes? I don't know how many games have been played into this stage of the beta, but surely a detailed look into em vs nm would sample a lot more than a few thousand games.

Sigh, EM being shorter than NM although true, it is not significantly shorter to allow for any rational argument that it is the reason people play it. I am fairly certain I have made it abundantly clear EM is in fact a little shorter. My original statement of "Not so" was an oversimplification of the already simple fact that choosing to play a ~32-33 minutes over a game that is going to last ~39-40 minutes purely on the basis that you want to save time is ridiculous.

This doesn't even take into account the standard deviation of the game length which makes the difference in the average length of each type of game even less significant.

Mmmhmmm. So would my second offered reasoning come in around here then?

I never played EM in dota, but since i started playing HON i found EM to be so much quicker and eventually saw it as, i can get twice as many games done meaning twice as much psr!! (unfortunatly the world doesnt work like this). and started playing EM for about 200 games... But after reading that article i stopped playing EM (havnt played one since). and at first, i got completely man handled. i lost like more then 150 PSR, its been about a week and a bit since then. starting to get my PSR back, and starting to get some really good games in, and starting to wonder why i was ever stupid enough to fall into that EM trap.

*edit* wrote this post to say thank you, but towards the end forgot to say it so.
so,
Thank you for bringing me back to the light torture!

This post has been edited by Phrased: Feb 11 2010, 03:26 AM