I think that this is funny as hell, i mean we were all complaining about how they sucked and were unplayable but in one patch and in 24 hours they've gone from shitty to OP. rofl
I think that this is funny as hell, i mean we were all complaining about how they sucked and were unplayable but in one patch and in 24 hours they've gone from shitty to OP. rofl
I don't think Relic took into the consideration of Ranger Veterancy when they made that change lol.
well, they changed nothing, or very minor from my amercan/wehrmacht game test since patch 1, as i was telling everyone that g43 dooms BAR rifleman, and yet no one believe me
also allied 57mm still needs some work, it can penetrate jagdpanther frontal armour fine.
also most PE vehicle including scout car is immune to flame, that is croc will do nothing to it
brit vs wehrmacht seems pretty balanced to me except weird bliz tree
In their current state, Allied Rangers are insanely overpowered because of their new armor class in combination with their veterancy levels. This makes them virtually unkillable by any form of small arms fire once they obtain veterancy. I suggest a removal of the Elite Infantry Armor class and improving Ranger Thompson upgrade's damage to 6 from 5. Since their Bazooka accuracy as already increased, I suggest just this change for now.
I dont know, I really like the elite armor on the Rangers. It gives them the elite feeling that paying 400mp should give and dont have them dying like flies like in vanilla, however they are too powerful. I suggest lowering their hp to rifleman levels and nerfing the vet for rangers, which was already too powerful in vanilla.
QUOTE
At the current speed of the game, Panzer Elite can tech up increased squad sizes armed with Mp44s too quickly. There's a reason why these Mp44 monsters were reserved for high level, high tier units such as the Stormtrooper (in Battle Phase) and Knights Cross Holder (in Battle Phase). Right now, you can purchase Mp44s for 75 munitions 5 minutes into the game and completely decimate every infantry unit on the battlefield close-range. Instead of nerfing Mp44s (which I think would be a horrible mistake), I suggest delaying the speed at which the Mp44s can come into play. For the Panzer Elite ONLY (not Wehrmacht), I suggest making Mp44s obtainable at 100 munitions per upgrade and increasing the price of Assault Grenadiers anywhere from 360 to 390 MP in cost.
IMO I think a good nerf would be just to limit the numbers of mp44s given from the upgrade. If you ask me outfitting the whole squad for 75mun is alittle silly, the thompson upgrade outfits 4 guys with thompsons for 100mun, and its an inferior smg. I say giving the squad 2 mp44s only for 75 will help from being overwhelmed from all that fire. Also making it come later is a good idea too.
the one thing I really think is wrong is that the 25er is cheaper than the howie and its not even doctrine specific. Also PE have no defenses unless they go luftwaffa
I dont know, I really like the elite armor on the Rangers. It gives them the elite feeling that paying 400mp should give and dont have them dying like flies like in vanilla, however they are too powerful. I suggest lowering their hp to rifleman levels and nerfing the vet for rangers, which was already too powerful in vanilla.
The proposal you made is sound and could very well work. Point noted, thank you. I'll ask Relic what they want to do with it because right now, they're over the top. We have to bring them down to earth a little bit but keep their elite Infantry feel.
QUOTE
IMO I think a good nerf would be just to limit the numbers of mp44s given from the upgrade. If you ask me outfitting the whole squad for 75mun is alittle silly, the thompson upgrade outfits 4 guys with thompsons for 100mun, and its an inferior smg. I say giving the squad 2 mp44s only for 75 will help from being overwhelmed from all that fire. Also making it come later is a good idea too.
It wouldn't make sense to upgrade 2 guys out of 4 possible (with upgrade), so no deal there. What you pay for what you get, and right now the Mp44 is too cheap for its availability.
also allied 57mm still needs some work, it can penetrate jagdpanther frontal armour fine.
also most PE vehicle including scout car is immune to flame, that is croc will do nothing to it
brit vs wehrmacht seems pretty balanced to me except weird bliz tree
You/he must of had penetration rounds on.. there's no way a 57mm can penetrate a Jagdpanther's frontal armor with a penetration multiplier of 0.0877 lol. Even with AP rounds.. its extremely hard to penetrate the frontal armor. Maybe someone else might want to shed some light onto this?
As for the Half-track thing, I have no problem with that.
And the Blitz Tree might need a -1 CP on the Manpower Blitz power and a reduction of Bundled Grenades for Stormtroopers. I hear they're 50 munitions now
the one thing I really think is wrong is that the 25er is cheaper than the howie and its not even doctrine specific. Also PE have no defenses unless they go luftwaffa
That's how they're designed. It's not within my mandate to edit game design.
My job is to take care of how they play in Multiplayer
Blitzkrieg is worthless. Storms at 375, bundles at 50 munitions is just too much, especially since the StuH and Tiger don't come with Storms anymore. Tiger is capped at 1 for 900 manpower, making the King Tiger, which is free and comes at the same time, so much better. The incentive to go Blitz is completely ruined. Two Tigers w/ Vet was the incentive. Now, you can do one of the following. You can save 900 manpower for a 9 CP Tiger that's exactly the same as it is in vanilla or you can save zero manpower for a 9 CP King Tiger. Make Storms cost 350 (or 400 and they come with the call-ins like before), put bundled grenades back at 40 munitions and make two Tigers buildable. Otherwise, Blitzkrieg is just a weaker, shittier version of Terror.
Pershing/Tiger/King Tiger imbalances still remain. The whole point of the 7 CP Pershing wasn't that it came at 7 CPs, it was that Tigers came at 8 CPs. It makes the Pershing come out at a time where the Axis player can have zero counters to it. Relic didn't learn at all, despite a dozen threads on each forum detailing every reason why Pershing coming earlier is bad for balance. Make the Pershing/Tiger come at 9 CPs and the King Tiger come at 10 CPs. That'd be the best solution.
Hero, your enthusiasm is wonderful, but man it hasnt even been 24 hours. This patch presents a gargantuan change to the game. We should play play play play play, and discuss before we start talking changes.
It wouldn't make sense to upgrade 2 guys out of 4 possible (with upgrade), so no deal there. What you pay for what you get, and right now the Mp44 is too cheap for its availability.
well, stormtoopers do get only 2 mp44s when they pay 75 mun. another 75 and you get 2 more. pe grens pay 75 and get 4 mp44s (if you hav eincreased squads). but ye, id rather see upgrade price increased to 100 mun.
QUOTE(2YearsofHell @ Aug 28 2007, 14:07 PM)
I really like the fact that the allied ELITE infantry from the INFANTRY company WTFPWNS everything...
Why not keep their heroic armor and raise their initial cost by 50-75 manpower ?
nice sugestion, instead of nerfing rangers just increase their price, so there wont be so many of them, making them elite. similar to comandos then with around 500 mp cost
i dont know about king tiger, it cant be same cp as tiger and free. in vanila you can at least get 2 tigers, but now, better tank for free vs 900 tiger? no way. tigers back to their old cp and 2 limit or king tiger cost 1000+mp or if its free at least give it alot of pop cap. like 18
This post has been edited by bavbav: Aug 28 2007, 14:28 PM
Hero, your enthusiasm is wonderful, but man it hasnt even been 24 hours. This patch presents a gargantuan change to the game. We should play play play play play, and discuss before we start talking changes.
I have played 15 games since last night.. which is dreadfully bum-like.
But there are some things that are just plain wrong. And most of these proposals have bee in place since OF Beta started
I think 0mar is on the right path with the Tiger/Pershing 9CP idea. Also perhaps the 25 pounder should have it's cooldown increased and it's accuracy in FOW decreased. Alternatively make the 25 Pounder cost Munitions as well as Fuel/Manpower, say 400 Manpower, 75 Fuel, 100 munitions.
well, stormtoopers do get only 2 mp44s when they pay 75 mun. another 75 and you get 2 more. pe grens pay 75 and get 4 mp44s (if you hav eincreased squads). but ye, id rather see upgrade price increased to 100 mun.
But the way that works is that Stormtroopers come with a squad leader shooting the Mp44 in bursts. 75 munitions for the upgrade allows 2 of the guys to get an Mp44 but 75 munitions more makes the entire squad go full-auto. I agree though.. it should just be 100 munitions for all 3 guns. I never understood why Relic had it like that.
QUOTE
nice sugestion, instead of nerfing rangers just increase their price, so there wont be so many of them, making them elite. similar to comandos then
But that doesn't change the fact that they shouldn't kill everything they see. And you can't really compare them to Commandos because they don't have AT abilities that's capable of destroying PE HT as well..
I think 0mar is on the right path with the Tiger/Pershing 9CP idea. Also perhaps the 25 pounder should have it's cooldown increased and it's accuracy in FOW decreased. Alternatively make the 25 Pounder cost Munitions as well as Fuel/Manpower, say 400 Manpower, 75 Fuel, 100 munitions.
0mar is pretty accurate with his description yes
I don't think the 25pounder should be limited as a weapon, or should it be limited by price. It's supposed to be a hallmark of British play.. to take away from that would be taking away from the design of the faction. There's a reason why there's a 25pounder in every British game.
Remember: We're trying to limit their ownage in team-based games but keeping their playability as well as lethality intact for 1v1s. If anyone has a better idea than me in this particular fix, please let me know!
ABSOLUTELY NOT FINALIZED
PRIORITY:
NEEDS MORE TESTING:
This post has been edited by HERO: Sep 4 2007, 23:07 PM
Posts: 18,047
Clan: EPIC
Game: