Company of Heroes

Looking for the advice of all especially the expert players. How do you approach the Brit matchup? I think I stated before I lost at least 90% of my games vs this faction and from hearing other PE players on these boards and watching replays I see this matchup is pretty much insane.

My standard strat against Brits is this, send ketten to cap concentrating on fuel, build one PG and he immediatley builds logistic command, from there 3 to 4 scout cars, and send them capping, PG then builds T3, and build an AC. AC's and scout cars then hunt down in this order Bren Carrier, LT, or recon section. While teching to Marder for the inevitable Stuart or T17's. So many vehicles requires massive micro, and while I can usually get the early advantage its just so easy for Brits to just go to the unbeatable blob with Brens and sappers with PIATS. For anyone that regularly beats Brits I would love to hear how you do it. I have seen some expert replays including Biosparks and they seem to have the same problem vs this faction.

Question for the developers who supposedly tested this patch out? Who thought this matchup was balanced? It's insane, try going with normal 5 PE build and you cant even scratch the initial Brit squads until your inf gets vet or zeal with MP44's. Which is why I go for the heavy vehicle build as they seem to do better than PG's and the vehicles can be repaired. I have seen 3 ketten build with tech to AC's but this is easily countered by Bren Carrier or carriers.

I have been trying to incorporate a vampire into the mix for the xpress purpose of building a goliath and luring the Brit blob into it but thats proved troublesome and munition heavy.

As far as I know this was the last patch, correct? So this will be the state of the PE-Brit matchup until a successor game comes along? Its very hard to understand how the developers could miss such an unbalance between two opposing factions. The Devs really got me scratching my head with some of their solutions, 2.601 PE was an absolute joke, granted 2.602 is better suited to US matchup but the matchup with Brits is futility.

Your problem lies in the Scout Cars. They take forever to build, can't fight Tommies other than an LT-less Recon Section in cover, and get smashed by any Brit vehicle other than a Roo or non-Vickers Bren. Going for multiple PGren squads at least allows for some versatility in the force, and for reasonable counters to anything the Brits can bring out (other than a Stag, but that's quite another matter).

As to Vampires, they're still a bit gimmicky imo, and require way too much babysitting to be useful. Maybe they work if you go SE and are constantly pissing your opponent off with Booby Traps and the like, but I dunno, never used them for anything other than bringing on a Goliath in a game I've already won.

I've heard that if you put a vampire in your opponents base sector then you get half of all his resources

And Scout cars aren't that bad, they just need to be in groups to do anything. It's like piospam, keep them together and they'll rape but alone they get raped.

The matches vs. brits are on my level (opponents between Lv. 6-9) much easier than the tough matches against US (G43 is fine, but capping speed of riflemen, WSC units, stalling and strong late game…).

I'm not pro, but few tips by lv. 7 PE with about five or six winning streak against Brits (I've replays if you're interested - the matches with my strategy lasted about ten minutes):
1. F1, K, G (double ketten start on almost all maps in 1v1 automatch)
2. You're faster capper in early game, avoid bren and that's all. Maybe try to detect mortar or vickers building and rush it.
3. Spare muni for shreks, G43 isn't big advantage against Brits
4. Hold at least one medium fuel, harass his choke points, try to kill LT. Don't fight really (use green cover or building, retreat after 1st PG of squad is lost - be aware of sniping last squad member by recon unit)
5. Build 5-6 PGs, meantime Kampfgruppe kompanie. Research panzershreks. If you have wounded squads, you can little bit slow down and research def. ops (just for sure).
6. If you need to cloak your ketten for better outcapping, go for Luftwaffe doctrine.
7. Build Panzer Support Command and AT Halftrack. Don't fight w/ ATHT, use it for thread breaking early Stuart (in case of not so succesful outcapping)
8. Use all your muni for panzerschreck upgrade (at least 4 PGs squads w/ shreks in 8 or 9 minutes)
9. Upgrade to and build PIV ist. Upgrade it (armor skirts = PIATs aren't able to penetrate in many cases)
10. Take your army (shreks, PIV ist and maybe ATHT because of always dangerous Stuart canister shot) and smash Field (and later HQ truck). It's about ten minutes (if you're succesful with your capping) and when opponent see PIV ist and about 4 or 5 shreked squads, just write GG.

This post has been edited by ufoncz: Jul 22 2011, 22:37 PM

Scout Cars are not the problem, beleive me I used to knock out the 5 Pgrens then tier 2 for IHT's or a MHT, but that isnt effective either. Your Pgrens cannot stand up to any British infantry section in the first 5 to 6 minutes of the game, unless there is at least a 3 to 1 advantage, and even then you are going to take serious casualties to one squad, especially so if its a recon section with their snipe ability.

I am not saying scout cars are a great strategy here either, its been a tad bit more effective than the 5 Pgrens but when I say tad I mean tad. Hell I completely agree with you that Vamps are gimmicky but when nothing else works, why not? and the reason I bring them is for Goliaths to try and kill the unkillable blob.

My utter frustration is that the prior to this patch the PE-Brit matchup was for shit because of the super Roo's, now I have to say it is even worse. I won probably 40 to 50% of my games against Brit opponents in the Roo days. Today I faced 4 Brit opponents in a row all with the same result. Very easy for Brits to just lock you down in your base and lurk on the perimeter with their blobs and their T17's destroying any venture out, and when you retreat? Multiple Arty strikes on your base and say goodbye to your pgrens and all the fuel and muni's you used to get them to a level where they can compete with Brit blobs and vehicles.

I've heard that as well, but doing it without people noticing is unlikely. If I use them at all, it's for the Secret WW2 MSTAR thing.

Aye but an SC gang is a) comprised of massive vehicles that get in each others' way and have terrible pathing, and b) means you have no field presence for the first five minutes of the game while you build them.

Vamps are a nice trick if the Brit doesn't notice at first or expect them coming. I lost the first time someone used a vamp on me simply because i didn't even know what it did (used basically never before now).

A decent brit will see scout cars and should immediately be thinking Bren carrier to fend them off till a stuart can come out and do damage. An upgunned BC will rip apart scout cars or a vampire HT. Once your opponent realizes whats going on, he will seek out the vamp and take it out in all likelihood.

The strat that has given me most difficulty as a brit had been the 2 ket to fast AC build. That obviously gets countered hard once a stuart hits the field unless you have an ATHT ready + shreks or AT nades. Another tricky little maneuver that seems to be gaining ground is placing PIAT sappers in a BC. The carrier can button a light vehicle while the sappers pummel it with piats. Not a good thing for most any PE vehicle.

my strat vs brits

3 schwimmwagon start, cap everything. brits lack mobility, just have good micro and dont try to cap things under fire, just run away and cap around him. You will have 3/4 of the map without a fight.

Then make 3 pg squads, get g43's on two squads asap, and fight to delay/hold/harass rather than to kill. Once you are forced to eventually retreat, build the command which gives infantry half tracks (its the second one). You should also add a 4th pg squad in this time.

Now you reinforce all squads and repair all schwimms, and get an IHT, then research shrecks. Put the two G43 squads in the IHT and watch the brit inf get owned helplessly. Get offensive vet on the g43 squads and defensive vet on the IHT.

When you can afford it, get another IHT and put the other two PG squads inside it, upgraded with panzershrecks. This will completely own the stuarts they produce as well as any emplacements (barring 17lber or bofors of course) and you can hunt undefended command trucks.

I've never had a brit survive much past this. Getting advanced repair is useful so you can pop your men out of your damaged IHTs after a fight and get them battle ready much sooner. You shouldnt be losing much manpower because you are not losing any men or IHTs through your careful micro.

From here just make your way along building all the tech structures and getting the first upgrades so as to activate panther battle group asap. I would get the first T1 building as your next building so as to get 4 man squads, and then at some point pop your men out of the HTs and reinforce them to add that firepower. If your enemy is going for armour heavy strats, take tank destroyer doctrine and go down left hand side for double shrecks.

This post has been edited by Gromij: Jul 24 2011, 11:00 AM

Scout cars own Bren carriers beleive me when I tell you

This post has been edited by regnar1194: Jul 24 2011, 14:21 PM

I suppose if you are spamming scout cars. Otherwise, an upgunned BC will tear a scout car apart.

An upgunned BC with AP will tear an SC apart, sure -- but without AP rounds the battle is fairly even. You need AP rounds activated to win and survive the fight with a decent chunk of health left. 2 SC can kill a single Upgunned/AP Bren with decent micro.

Very true. If you are going for multiple SCs, then you can overwhelm the BC. But, its unlikely that a decent Brit player will have his BC out on an island. He is likely to have tommy squads nearby that should provide enough support to take out the SCs or at least do enough damage to force a retreat.

In my humble opinion, SCs early on are better used for harassing and/or seeking out officers to gib.

Also remember ( I might be preaching to the choir but just in case) that the PG/Tommys matchup is NOT like the PG/Rifle matchup. You aren't going to have as easy a time. Tommys are far better killers and take more hits than rifles. Tactics tactics tactics are what's key when PGs fight Tommys. No roflpwn PG blobs like vs. rifles.

G43s aren't as good vs. Tommys as vs. Rifles but, IMO, get 'em anyway. Your PGs need the firepower. A vanilla PG squad has no advantage over a Tommy squad. You still need the schrecks though, but you can just buy TBs and spend the munis on other things, like Incendiary grens (burn Tommy, burn).

Vampire in the brit players base sector doesn't give you half of his resource income. Actually it gives you about 1,5 mp/min I quess. However it still DENIES (about) half of his resource income.

This is the example of the strategy I described above. As I wrote in the description of the replay: It's working on my level (6-8) but I guess the higher level and more aggresive british player could easily destroy it. So – I'm curious about your critics and tips.

http://www.gamereplays.org/companyofheroes...s&id=223318

Unfortunately it is difficult to judge the quality of your strat because the Brit player is so poor. Spamming MG nests just doesn't work. Too easy to take out with Mortar HT etc. Also he stuck his HQ in a corner when any decent Brit will put it in the middle of the map. He had basically given away two thirds of the map and two VPs. Unless he was planning to pull off a mortar/commando rush on your base (which he wasn't good enough to pull off) he was digging his own grave.

Uploaded another short replay:
http://www.gamereplays.org/companyofheroes...s&id=223372

Unfortunately with some newbie mistakes (cause I'm still newbie) like my idle units and without the mortar pit on the british side. But he plays more aggressively than the guy in the first example and after the PIV is finished, you're prepared for everything (PIV owns infantry (out of the trenches of course) and PGs with schreks emplacements and Stuart (canister shot isn't so big threat because you've ATHT and if one PG squad dies you've another two or three w/ schreks).

If you have prove this strategy against better opponent I'm afraid that someone other than me has to do this. I don't have much time (and calm) to play automatches and I level up very slow (because of the troubles with americas - WSC units + M8 and sometimes raid + calliopes is something very difficult to challenge for low-level PE with still bad micro).

This post has been edited by ufoncz: Jul 27 2011, 19:02 PM

I immediately saw the problem in your OP: you tech to ACs and marders instead of P4s. This is completely unnecessary. If he locks down a fuel sector then send a vampire to his starting strategic point while you're fighting him in a large battle somewhere else, I'm serious about that - hopefully he won't see it and if he does come after it later just drive it away and do it again.

P4s will obliterate anything he brings out except cromwells which he won't have by the time you have P4s. Don't fear PIATs, drive next to them and kill them.

I'll try to get a replay and upload it in just a moment, soon as I face a brit.

My above mentioned strategy worked against more skilled and aggressive British player too (and still allows me to make some terrible noobish mistakes), check it out:
http://www.gamereplays.org/companyofheroes...mp;st=0#8624151

Your strategy has a sound basis obvoiusly does work at your level.

At higher levels though, you will simply not have enough firepower to stop the early brit rush at your cutoff on most maps, (angoville esp. south, langres esp. north, WT, Engletons etc). This will stagnate you from the fuel you need to get to ATHT before stuart and from the munis you need for schrecks. I strongly recommend doing 1 ketten opening on those and get an IHT or even early mortar instead.

It's a good strategy for bigger maps though (Sturzdorf, Beaux, IR). You can even get 3 kettens-2PG-2HT-ATHT + TD and use them to repair your one HT while kiting with the other, which gives them good staying power (provided good mirco)